We cannot achieve balance while DPS jobs have utilities

[Tunda]

We cannot achieve balance while DPS jobs have utilities

Not only DPS but also tanks

If there is:
X dps job have utility
Y dps job have no utility but have 2% extra dps

As a raid leader I will take dps job with utility all day

All dps job should be selfish no utility allowed for dps jobs

As I request before:
1- all dps, healers and tanks should be selfish with 0 party utility.

As dps should have 100% dps skills
As healers 50% healing 50% dps
As tanks 50% tank skills 50% dps
2- add new role name it "support"
Support should fill the gap of doing damage and provide utilities
50% dps 50% utilities and buffs

Why?

1- 2 min buffs is 1 person job no more missing alignment
2- improve dps jobs balance by removing utility aspect

We cannot achieve balance while some jobs do 2% less dps but provide 5% dps to all party

It is clearly not fair and not balance

How party will look like?
Light party:
1 dps
1 support
1 healer
1 tank

Full party:
2 dps
2 supports
2 healers
2 tanks

Create separate version of Dancer/ bard / red mage / monk / what ever other job and give them support kit with 50% dps

What do you think?

[Supersnow845]

Locking “true DPS” to 1 slot out of 4 or 2 out of 8 would be a mess in this game, the game already suffers from supports (as in tanks and healers) being 50% of the party while being like 25% of the playerbase

I could see 1/1/2/1 maybe working but it would mess up a lot of the game’s content to rebalance everything from 4/8/24 to 5/10/30

I’d also imagine people who play classes like BRD and DNC like a DPS wouldn’t like being forced into being supports

[Tunda]

Locking “true DPS” to 1 slot out of 4 or 2 out of 8 would be a mess in this game, the game already suffers from supports (as in tanks and healers) being 50% of the party while being like 25% of the playerbase

I could see 1/1/2/1 maybe working but it would mess up a lot of the game’s content to rebalance everything from 4/8/24 to 5/10/30

I’d also imagine people who play classes like BRD and DNC like a DPS wouldn’t like being forced into being supports

DNC and bard is already a support job

The self dps of them are so low to the point where some tanks could achieve their damage

It is so impiguise to play dps job then you find out the job is actually a support

That what happened to me when I start playing ffxiv as archer

Bard as support job didn't fit me so I immediately change the class

[Supersnow845]

DNC and bard is already a support job

The self dps of them are so low to the point where some tanks could achieve their damage

It is so impiguise to play dps job then you find out the job is actually a support

That what happened to me when I start playing ffxiv as archer

Bard as support job didn't fit me so I immediately change the class

DNC and BRD both “support” in the sense they have large buffs that contribute to their rDPS but also have effects that increase their pDPS, they are still 75% carried by their pDPS. If this is your idea of support then you really aren’t changing anything except enforcing 2 selfish jobs and 2 “support jobs” as we currently know them (ie jobs that have non interactive raid buffs they just press because they exist). If you do it this way you need to rip raid buffs out of some jobs that have them because right now it’s 4/9 in favour of raid buffs

True support (ie near zero pDPS potentially zero rDPS as well built entirely around buffs, support and debuffs is an entirely different thing

[Tunda]

DNC and BRD both “support” in the sense they have large buffs that contribute to their rDPS but also have effects that increase their pDPS, they are still 75% carried by their pDPS. If this is your idea of support then you really aren’t changing anything except enforcing 2 selfish jobs and 2 “support jobs” as we currently know them (ie jobs that have non interactive raid buffs they just press because they exist). If you do it this way you need to rip raid buffs out of some jobs that have them because right now it’s 4/9 in favour of raid buffs

True support (ie near zero pDPS potentially zero rDPS as well built entirely around buffs, support and debuffs is an entirely different thing

We don't need true support

We learn from the past true healers are boring 1 dot and 1 glare isn't fun

It is OK to mix and match 2 kits in 1 job as tanks for example

Paladin / warrior / gunbreaker
Are great in their kit 50% dps and 50% tank skills with some party utility

We don't want to replicate healers situation again..
It is OK to have some dpa rotation with 50% support kit

[Raikai]

I feel like people forget that everything turns into rDPS in the end.

If Phys Ranged (outsourced contributions accounted) ends up being so far compared to PCT and BLM, then people play them just because they a) like the job play/aesthetics or b) have a desirable non-dmg utility. Imagine if the !% party composition slot didn't exist, I wonder how many people would bench DNC/BRD/MCH because yes, they do have strong defensive group actions, but those get obsolete very fast as people get more vitality and the healers get more gear or the SMN/RDM rezzes getting useless because people groups don't need that anymore for reclears.

While I like the idea of a support role (purple icon anybody?), I feel it's too much hassle for them to consider that. But the idea of the Phys Ranged becoming the 'bearer' of the 2min meta would certainly make their spot more valuable. Yes, the impact is bigger if they are dead during the 2min marks, but that isn't a big issue since dps only matters when you're getting to see enrage reliably anyway. Every other action that used to make part of the 2min meta (Brotherhood, Divination), could be repurposed into something else.

That would leave just the RDM/SMN problem of their dps being taxed on the rez, and rather than just deleting it, I'd either make the rez available to everyone via a Phoenix Down consumable OR make Ressurection and Verraise have a 3min recast time.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Phys Ranged is supposed to be the "support", though MCH has been since Stormblood kinda just a pure DPS, BRD songs bonuses are kinda small and DNC only really significantly buffs their dance partner...

[Tunda]

Phys Ranged is supposed to be the "support", though MCH has been since Stormblood kinda just a pure DPS, BRD songs bonuses are kinda small and DNC only really significantly buffs their dance partner...

Support shouldn't be in 1 sub role

There should be melee support range support magical support

Machinist isn't fit as support it should full fledge selfish dps with inspiration of their kit in PVP

Red mage should be support job
Summon could fit with their current kit

Monk fit easily


Dnc bard is already support jobs

[Tunda]

I feel like people forget that everything turns into rDPS in the end.

If Phys Ranged (outsourced contributions accounted) ends up being so far compared to PCT and BLM, then people play them just because they a) like the job play/aesthetics or b) have a desirable non-dmg utility. Imagine if the !% party composition slot didn't exist, I wonder how many people would bench DNC/BRD/MCH because yes, they do have strong defensive group actions, but those get obsolete very fast as people get more vitality and the healers get more gear or the SMN/RDM rezzes getting useless because people groups don't need that anymore for reclears.

While I like the idea of a support role (purple icon anybody?), I feel it's too much hassle for them to consider that. But the idea of the Phys Ranged becoming the 'bearer' of the 2min meta would certainly make their spot more valuable. Yes, the impact is bigger if they are dead during the 2min marks, but that isn't a big issue since dps only matters when you're getting to see enrage reliably anyway. Every other action that used to make part of the 2min meta (Brotherhood, Divination), could be repurposed into something else.

That would leave just the RDM/SMN problem of their dps being taxed on the rez, and rather than just deleting it, I'd either make the rez available to everyone via a Phoenix Down consumable OR make Ressurection and Verraise have a 3min recast time.

Rez could be part of support jobs kit

If there is a skill tree we could achieve that 1 job could fit in 2 roles but I don't think so

[royox]

True. The solution should be eliminating all the utility from the DPS jobs and leave all the utility for BRD and DNC. Maybe create 2 more DPS with mostly utility (one Magical and one Melee).

But 2bh, I always though that the core of the problem is to have 3 main roles (tank, healer, dps). If we had Tank, Healer, Buff/Debuffer, DPS it would be solved.