[VPR] I would like an option to separate my combo buttons on Viper.

[Syl_]

Good Evening!

I made an FF forums account just for this post. I levelled Viper first with the launch of Dawntrail, and I have to say beyond its problems with a lack of nuance and optimization (especially post-7.05), it still has two critical flaws. At first I was hoping it was a no-brainer change they would make, but seeing as we're at 7.05 I may as well be another drop in the bucket of feedback surrounding Viper. I'm sorry if other people have discussed this (fairly likely); I tried skimming through threads to see if other people have brought it up, but I have yet to see much on it.

With recent patches, the developers have mentioned some people sending in feedback with some alleged difficulty with managing Viper's combo routes.

I have (in my mind) a very simple solution to this that would make it feel more in line with other melee DPS's combo routes. I would like it to be an option to separate Viper's combo routes.

Put into illustrations, I would like to be able to turn this:



Into this (courtesy of MSPaint):



Potentially using this:



So that my hotbar can be more similar to this:


I realize how this option would barely change the job for everyone else, but I would like it to be an option without having to put Steel Fangs and Dread Reaving Fangs on my hotbar three times each.

I understand that some people like not having lots of buttons to press, so I can not stress enough that I would prefer that this potentially be an option rather than a mandatory change. Right now, I do this so I can feel like I'm pressing 123...


Also the other critical flaw with VPR is sound design; the job sounds like even more of a wet noodle than Hakaze Gyofu.

[Jaltaer]

Yes, please! This is probably my #1 gripe with VPR at the moment, and the reason why I haven't bothered taking it into any content - I know that plenty of people seem to prefer the PVP-style buttons but I think it's a bit ridiculous that the job that would without a doubt most benefit from the "split combo actions" option that was introduced in the same expansion as said job doesn't receive it for a single action available to it.

Considering the fact that VPR has 27 non-hotbar actions compared to only 18 hotbar buttons, it feels like they took the "button bloat" complaints too far in the other direction. I genuinely think a lot of the complaints about trying to remember positionals and other buff uptimes would disappear if people at least had the option to lay out their hotbars similarly to other melee jobs, without having to just have copies of the same button 3+ times on their hotbar.


Also, totally agree on the sound design - there's something ironic about the fact that the job named Viper feels completely toothless due to the non-SFX used for its skills... but that's more of a wider problem with a lot of DT job actions in general, I've noticed. I can maybe count on one hand the number of DT added or changed skills that *don't* feel like utterly weightless nothing due to their sound design.

[Kabooa]

I agree that those who wish to separate their buttons should be allowed to.

Consolidation should have always come with the caveat of being optional.

[jonimated]

I certainly don't see a problem with allowing this, and honestly I'm not sure why it wasn't an option from the start.

I wouldn't do it myself as I like the way it is now, but having the option doesn't hurt.

[Lyth]

...

This isn't going to work out based off of the way in which the combos branch out. You're essentially asking for an auto-combo on the final step so that you can condense the job down to a two combo system.

Performing the job's 'combo mudras' is part of the 'alleged difficulty', as you so quaintly put it. You always have the option of 'following the dotted line' if you're still learning and need to hunt-and-peck, although you're much better off learning to play from memory.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I really dont get it, why would people complain about the combo path? after the NG remove its literally 2 2 2, 1 1 1, 2 2 1, 1 1 2 repeat, there isnt more to it? if you press 2 2 <--- the third gcd is ALWAYS a rear, if you press 1 1 <--- the third gcd will always be flank? instead of always complaining about the smallest things just try to get some muscle memory.

[Syl_]

This isn't going to work out based off of the way in which the combos branch out. You're essentially asking for an auto-combo on the final step so that you can condense the job down to a two combo system.

Performing the job's 'combo mudras' is part of the 'alleged difficulty', as you so quaintly put it. You always have the option of 'following the dotted line' if you're still learning and need to hunt-and-peck, although you're much better off learning to play from memory.

Alleged: 2: "asserted to be true or to exist"

Putting my own opinion on the job aside with recent patch notes, it is by definition alleged that "We've received feedback that viper's unique combo system, and the managing of its combo routes, have proven relatively difficult".

An "auto-combo on the final step" is not at all out of the ordinary if you view the hypothetical graphic I made for what this option would look like.


The job would simply need to replace the third button with either the rear options or the flank options depending on which combo was built into in much the same way Dragoon can replace either Fang & Claw or Wheeling Thrust with Drakesbane depending on which combo built into it.

I really dont get it, why would people complain about the combo path? after the NG remove its literally 2 2 2, 1 1 1, 2 2 1, 1 1 2 repeat, there isnt more to it? if you press 2 2 <--- the third gcd is ALWAYS a rear, if you press 1 1 <--- the third gcd will always be flank? instead of always complaining about the smallest things just try to get some muscle memory.

People complained about Noxious Gnash even though it was very easy to press even accounting for double reawaken windows. Viper's combo routes and positionals have always been hellishly easy, but would it not be alright to ask for an option for people that are more comfortable with more traditional combo routes?

It was the first job I levelled and learned in Dawntrail, and it was easy to pick up and play relatively optimally after hitting a dummy for the first time. All I ask for is an option to press 1-2-3/ctrl-1-2-3 without having 3(x2) aesthetically redundant buttons on my hotbar.

[Lyth]

It's a bit more than 'alleged' difficulty if you're asking for simplifications for job mechanics that you're struggling with. You can just come out and say that you're finding it difficult.

The reason why an auto-combo doesn't work on the final step is because you're reducing a four combo system down to a two combo system. That's not the point of the job. My recommendation is that, now that you've levelled it, you can go ahead and park it on the shelf and find something else that's more your jam among the rest of the jobs that you've levelled. Not every job is going to resonate with you, and sometimes you're just not the target audience. It's a bit like asking cast times to be removed from BLM because you're used to having more instant casts on PCT or SMN.

[Syl_]

It's a bit more than 'alleged' difficulty if you're asking for simplifications for job mechanics that you're struggling with. You can just come out and say that you're finding it difficult.

The reason why an auto-combo doesn't work on the final step is because you're reducing a four combo system down to a two combo system. That's not the point of the job. My recommendation is that, now that you've levelled it, you can go ahead and park it on the shelf and find something else that's more your jam among the rest of the jobs that you've levelled. Not every job is going to resonate with you, and sometimes you're just not the target audience. It's a bit like asking cast times to be removed from BLM because you're used to having more instant casts on PCT or SMN.

It's a bit less than alleged difficulty if I'm not even struggling with it to begin with. I use the term alleged difficulty because in my opinion this job has no overt difficulty to speak of, but I would have liked to respect the opinions of people that do find it difficult. I don't have to struggle with something to dislike it. Separating combo buttons is not overly a "simplification" so much as an alternative. I would appreciate if you do not assume what I find difficult and not difficult: especially this already very easy job.

Do not tell me about target audiences. I am very familiar with the game catering to people that don't main the jobs they're reworking as somebody that dislikes the DRG and AST reworks. What I am asking for is simply an option. Where jobs like Monk, Dragoon, and Astrologian lost what made them special for a lot of people with no option to go back, I would simply like an option to find a really monotonous and functionally slow job more enjoyable to play.

You are overcomplicating this very simple "four combo system" severely. It is not even close to asking to change cast times on Black Mage, because that would fundamentally change how the job plays while all I'm asking for is a quality of life change even less significant than removing Huton from a job that functionally never had to press it. Monk has a flexible combo where your three-step combo can flexibly go between the routes and Viper can do the same thing. Dragoon can change different buttons depending on which combo route was built into and hypothetically Viper would be able to do the same thing. I wish I could make a gif to explain to you how simple this would hypothetically be, but all I ask is that you take a look at the jobs I know you already have levelled and see how easy it would be to translate what they have to this job.



In case you're still not getting it:
Monk can freely press any combination of opo-opo, raptor, and couerl combo buttons. You can hypothetically press Dragon kick into Twin Snakes into Demolish but you can also hypothetically press Dragon Kick into Rising Raptor into Demolish.

This is not unlike Viper where you can hypothetically press either stage 1 fang (Steel Fangs or Dread Reaving Fangs) into either stage 2 sting (Swiftskin's Sting or Hunter's Sting) into either stage 3 positional (Hindsting/fang or Flanksbanesting/fang).

Dragoon's button conversion is conditional. If you build into its Disembowel Spiral Blow combo then Fang & Claw will be converted into Drakesbane after Wheeling Thrust. If you build into its Vorpal Thrust Lance Barrage Combo then Wheeling Thrust will be converted into Drakesbane after Fang & Claw.

Hypothetically, Viper's button conversion for stage 3 positionals could also be hypothetical. If this option were to be available, the third button would simply convert into a hind or flank depending on if the previous combo action were swiftskin's sting or hunter's sting.

You are massively overhyping what is a conceptually not very unique "four-button combo system". Viper at its core has two flexible routes not unlike monk. By your logic, Monk has a six-combo system by virtue of the fact it can flexibly go through these routes.

[Lyth]

a really monotonous and functionally slow job

I just find it ironic that, in the span of the same thread, you've simultaneously demanded simplifications for VPR and dismissed the job as 'hellishly easy'. Why would you recommend changes to a job that you have no real interest in playing, and don't respect the gameplay? It's genuinely baffling. Just play something else, don't go out of your way to sabotage it.

VPR players don't want further simplifications.