Savage guides are a nuisance (when posted this early)

[Akereen]

So I would like to first say something before anyone types out : no, guides are not a nuisance to this game.
Hear me out first.

I've been interested in blind progging this raid tier using PF ; (un)fortunately, I have found a job a day before DT came out, and have been happy with it since I started there.

Currently, I can only play when I'm not at work, which is not a lot, but still enough to have time to do at least two full lockouts with PF, not counting the ones that disband after five tries despite being ''practice, from start, fully blind''.

I played day one when savage came out and only had about 2 hours free, so I found a party and we did a lockout where we pretty much got to 30% of the boss. I was happy with that. I wanted to do more, but considering I would get 6 hours of sleep, getting up pretty early, I decided not to push my luck.

Forward a day, Hector's first guide was already out, and ALL of PF was just ''Hector strats''. I did not find a full blind party in a while and when I did, we got in just to get someone saying ''so we're doing same baits?'' and finding out three of my fully blind party watched the mini guide from Hector (I knew it existed, seeing the thumbnail scrolling while on my pause at work but did not look into it, to stay blind.)

I'm not saying guides are bad. I used guides to clear UWU, UCOB, TEA and pretty much all fights 3 and 4 of every tier.

I say, can we just all put a 2 weeks CD on guide making just so people with less time, can actually blind prog without having people spoiling and following guides to the letter? Cause I got home, opened up PF, and saw the image below straight away wanting to get into M2, despite not have even had the chance of entering the instance, and was like... YEAH... No... I don't want to deal with this.

[Delis]

Nothing stopping you from making a PF listing with the description Blind prog, no guides. You wouldn't have issues filling.

[gllt]

Yeah but then people who join can just lie about not knowing.
Pretty sure that's an issue an old as time too.

You can argue over whether that matters or not but yeah.

[Collin_Sky]

No. The community is not going to collectively sand bag their own progression and reduce their chances of clearing for 2 weeks because you want to blind prog.

[Volgia]

So I would like to first say something before anyone types out : no, guides are not a nuisance to this game.
Hear me out first.

I've been interested in blind progging this raid tier using PF ; (un)fortunately, I have found a job a day before DT came out, and have been happy with it since I started there.

Currently, I can only play when I'm not at work, which is not a lot, but still enough to have time to do at least two full lockouts with PF, not counting the ones that disband after five tries despite being ''practice, from start, fully blind''.

I played day one when savage came out and only had about 2 hours free, so I found a party and we did a lockout where we pretty much got to 30% of the boss. I was happy with that. I wanted to do more, but considering I would get 6 hours of sleep, getting up pretty early, I decided not to push my luck.

Forward a day, Hector's first guide was already out, and ALL of PF was just ''Hector strats''. I did not find a full blind party in a while and when I did, we got in just to get someone saying ''so we're doing same baits?'' and finding out three of my fully blind party watched the mini guide from Hector (I knew it existed, seeing the thumbnail scrolling while on my pause at work but did not look into it, to stay blind.)

I'm not saying guides are bad. I used guides to clear UWU, UCOB, TEA and pretty much all fights 3 and 4 of every tier.

I say, can we just all put a 2 weeks CD on guide making just so people with less time, can actually blind prog without having people spoiling and following guides to the letter? Cause I got home, opened up PF, and saw the image below straight away wanting to get into M2, despite not have even had the chance of entering the instance, and was like... YEAH... No... I don't want to deal with this.

I prefer doing it blind first, list it up, there will be people willing to join. Also I don't really like Hector strats this time around, I found the pastebin to be kind of more safe to follow.

[Shikiseki]

lol I've also noticed this, while it's nothing new, you basically have to study and do your homework these days for a game which I ain't just feeling it. People just got so used to getting spoonfed by the solution to the puzzles that it's basically the "meta" and then they complain about the game being braindead when all they do is blindly follow a guide without any questions asked. Games are easy if you have strategy guide to follow lol. That's the only thing I'm very jealous of world first teams - they get to play the game without any help as it is intended to while figuring out and coming up with solutions themselves. You cannot have that in party finder sadly unless you immediately log in when the servers go up, otherwise you might get hit with "watch guide" listings when you get home after work 6 hours later...

I'm honestly not happy with it but at the same time, the best you can do is create your own party finder listing and wait...

[CamuiKushi]

No. The community is not going to collectively sand bag their own progression and reduce their chances of clearing for 2 weeks because you want to blind prog.

This is a very important point and why the current loot system needs looking at tbh.

[Jeeqbit]

Even if nobody made guides, it would still happen. Let me explain why:

I made blind prog parties for the first raid for many tiers in the minutes of it releasing. Every single time, it fills up with very competent players that have done this for years. But I promise you this, they are all watching twitch streamers on their second monitors and copying the markers and strats. Despite that I said it was a "blind" prog party.

There was also times where nobody released the strats as a video but the strat still went viral purely from the twitch streams.

Most people will just look for strats and use them so they don't have to figure it out. Most parties won't be blind. But occasionally you will see some. The people who join probably don't read, because that is what PF is like, people don't read, and they will often just paste in their markers or contribute some of their knowledge of the PF strats anyway.

If you want it fully blind the most sure way you can do it is by making a static where every member has fully clarified they understand it is blind and that they can't look at or reference strat guides etc.

Anyway, it's only worthwhile you being blind for the surprise. Everyone else doesn't need to be. Especially with the mechanics they do now where it's like wipe > wipe > wipe and when you slow motion it, you figure out it's stack > spread > light parties or something like that. Being blind just means you have to figure out which of those is happening and that can be tedious for no reason, when a guide could just tell you.

Also, although there can be multiple strats in some cases, often it's just kinda... you do the mechanic or you don't and there's not much other way anyone's likely to do it, even if they were doing it blind.

[CaedemSanguis]

imagine trying to blind prog in pf

you need to find a static that do 100% blind prog, cause its never gonna happen in pf

and even in a static, there will be someone that resolves the mech before you at least half of the time

[All_Nonsense]

Savage guides are a boon when posted this early. Pf lacks the consistency and mechanic solution consistency of a typical static. Guides give a range of solutions for each mechanic that most people in pf can familiarize themselves with, ensuring that every group you join understands how the party plans on solving each mechanic based on short, concise details such as "TN | supp bait first | dps ccw" or whatever early on in the tier. From there, the strats are modified until a "party finder standard" is developed, ensuring the highest percentage of the interested playerbase is able to clear the tier each time and reclear with minimal issues. This also gives the comfort of knowing that every party you join will know the fight in a similar way to how you know it.

If you want to blind prog without a static, then you will need to make your own party in most cases, and even then you'll have to understand that nothing is stopping folks who've watched a guide from joining. In addition to this, you will likely develop non-standard strategies in each party, resulting in having to learn and relearn difference mechanic solutions as your party inevitably disbands and reforms. Massive headache. Best avoided.

Finally, a comprehensive, mass adopted guide hasn't really been released for M4S - it's all pastebins. Nothing stopping you from making your own pastebins and seeing how it sticks in pf.