Loot System for Savage

[CaedemSanguis]

No one *wants* to get shafted. My point is it feels much more satisfying when you get something than if it was just guaranteed. Giving it to everyone every time makes the game dull.

If it was something you needed to get first before you could actively do certain content, that'd be another thing. But it's not.

the point is that the gear is already easy to get, I dont feel any satisfaction when getting raid gear

yet it is very boring for me to wait for 10-12 weeks in order to have 2 bis jobs

[Andevom]

the point is that the gear is already easy to get, I dont feel any satisfaction when getting raid gear

yet it is very boring for me to wait for 10-12 weeks in order to have 2 bis jobs

What content will you do once you have BiS?

[Stasya]

What content will you do once you have BiS?

Ultimate, they release it and don't even unlock savage (because there is literally no other way to farm gear and i doubt new criterion will change anything) just so more people can enter.

I assume this is a bait post, like you cant do savage in bis too? Criterion?

[GartredZW]

Ultimate, they release it and don't even unlock savage (because there is literally no other way to farm gear and i doubt new criterion will change anything) just so more people can enter.

I assume this is a bait post, like you cant do savage in bis too? Criterion?

You don't need BiS to do Savage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to clear to get it in the first place.
Ultimates release months after Savage. you've got enough time to just save up books without winning a single roll to get your BiS for whatever class you're going to do Ultimates with.

What people don't seem to realize is that BiS isn't a gate for the vast majority of players. It's an achievement. What people are asking for by wanting Savage gearing to be quicker is for the achievement to be easier. "I want the Necromancer title, but I don't want to have to wade through all 200 floors. They should just let me start on floor 160 and still get the title." This is what these complaints sound like.
This is one of the few aspects that actually feels like an MMO. Getting a weekly clear, and getting nothing for it. (except not really nothing. you get the book) And just going "Oh well. Maybe next week." It's not easy losing out on loot a few weeks in a row, but you'll manage.
Another aspect of MMOs that has a place in FFXIV because of this system is Character Identity. You can't just gear up every single class as much as you want to. You have to specialize, and choose your favorites to build your unique character. You can get all of them into raids immediately with enough crafting or gil if that's what you want. And barring the astronomically small percentage of players who want to resub only on the Ultimate patches, and get clears with seven different jobs all back to back without any prep time, It's good enough, and works perfectly as intended.

[Chiru_Kai]

You don't need BiS to do Savage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to clear to get it in the first place.
Ultimates release months after Savage. you've got enough time to just save up books without winning a single roll to get your BiS for whatever class you're going to do Ultimates with.

What people don't seem to realize is that BiS isn't a gate for the vast majority of players. It's an achievement. What people are asking for by wanting Savage gearing to be quicker is for the achievement to be easier. "I want the Necromancer title, but I don't want to have to wade through all 200 floors. They should just let me start on floor 160 and still get the title." This is what these complaints sound like.
This is one of the few aspects that actually feels like an MMO. Getting a weekly clear, and getting nothing for it. (except not really nothing. you get the book) And just going "Oh well. Maybe next week." It's not easy losing out on loot a few weeks in a row, but you'll manage.
Another aspect of MMOs that has a place in FFXIV because of this system is Character Identity. You can't just gear up every single class as much as you want to. You have to specialize, and choose your favorites to build your unique character. You can get all of them into raids immediately with enough crafting or gil if that's what you want. And barring the astronomically small percentage of players who want to resub only on the Ultimate patches, and get clears with seven different jobs all back to back without any prep time, It's good enough, and works perfectly as intended.

"Welcome to Final Fantasy 14 where you can play every job and switch between jobs at will! It's so amazing and what sets us apart as an MMO!"
....
"No no, not in savage, there you have to get only 1 job to BiS which takes 12 weeks, maybe slightly less if you're lucky. Tough luck for you if you want to do 2 completely different jobs for ultimates that require BiS, gonna take you 6 months to do that and you might as well just wait for the next raid tier."
"Oh you went on a vacation? in AUGUST?! Are you *crazy*? Guess what loser, your timing for BiS and possibly viability for ultimate is now delayed by how many weeks you went on vacay and didn't complete savage raids. How DARE you have a real-life and not log in weekly. SMH."

[GartredZW]

"Welcome to Final Fantasy 14 where you can play every job and switch between jobs at will! It's so amazing and what sets us apart as an MMO!"
....
"No no, not in savage, there you have to get only 1 job to BiS which takes 12 weeks, maybe slightly less if you're lucky. Tough luck for you if you want to do 2 completely different jobs for ultimates that require BiS, gonna take you 6 months to do that and you might as well just wait for the next raid tier."
"Oh you went on a vacation? in AUGUST?! Are you *crazy*? Guess what loser, your timing for BiS and possibly viability for ultimate is now delayed by how many weeks you went on vacay and didn't complete savage raids. How DARE you have a real-life and not log in weekly. SMH."

Didn't you read when I said that you can make every job savage ready by just crafting or buying gear? And yes. You shouldn't just be able to fully gear out all classes on current content. Pick your favorites and specialize a bit. I don't know how many people plan to Ultimate raid day 1 with two different jobs at the same time, but I can guarantee that they're not enough to upend the entire loot system for.
Also, are you surprised that taking time off from the game might not leave you with enough time to do what you want exactly when you wanted? I'll use an analogy again: "I want to play Dawntrail on launch, but I'm still in Heavensward because I took a break from the game, and now the game is forcing me to either waste time going through the rest of the story, or buy a story skip."

After this past month or so, it's pot calling the kettle black, but you don't actually need to be week 1 on anything if you're not ready. That's the beauty of this game. You can always be sure that you'll have something current to do for endgame regardless of whether it's just released, or a month away from being outdated, and soon enough everyone is going to be on equal footing again when the next tier releases.

[Chiru_Kai]

Didn't you read when I said that you can make every job savage ready by just crafting or buying gear? And yes. You shouldn't just be able to fully gear out all classes on current content. [...]
Also, are you surprised that taking time off from the game might not leave you with enough time to do what you want exactly when you wanted? I'll use an analogy again: "I want to play Dawntrail on launch, but I'm still in Heavensward because I took a break from the game, and now the game is forcing me to either waste time going through the rest of the story, or buy a story skip."

You can be savage-ready, sure. But BiS is a prerequisite for ultimates.
And yes, if you are an ultimate raider you actually might want to have multiple gearing options for multiple jobs.

"You shouldn't just be able to fully gear out all classes on current content."
Why not? No seriously, come with a good, provable, factual answer.
The only reasons that are given are "because it burns people out", and it's nonsense, because it's not proven with facts whatsoever. It's an assumption.
Here's why: there's plenty of non-savage loot or grind mechanics in this game that do not have weekly restrictions. You can grind them endlessly. Do people complain about it not being timegated if they burn out on it? No. Because if you get burnt out on a specific type of content, you can go do other content in the game, or heck, you can go play another game for a while.

What DO you hear tho? "it's too slow", "it feels bad to lose rolls", and my favorite: "it burns me out having to be forced to wait weeks before I reach my goal".

Another argument is "it provides incentive to log in". And to that I've already argued: no it doesn't. Making something a chore, does not make for content. It just turns it into a chore, and chores are not what games should strive to be. Chores are notoriously unfun and they demand discipline, not reliant on motivation or fun-factor, but rather because you *have to*.
I'm also not saying it should be easy, but it's okay to apply the Normal Raid or Extreme loot systems to savage and literally nobody will complain.

"I want to play Dawntrail on launch, but I'm still in Heavensward because I took a break from the game, and now the game is forcing me to either waste time going through the rest of the story, or buy a story skip."
False analogy. Savage loot mechanics are the equivalent of, say, being 300 quests away from finishing Endwalker. But you can only do 25 quests per week because of arbitrary reasons. So yay, 12 weeks to finish.
You start playing 3 months before Dawntrail comes out. If you do it right, you will finish just in time. But oh no, you took a vacation, or something happened IRL, and now you can't do it anymore. Then you complain about the 25 weekly limit for quests being a silly arbitrary limit and you hear arguments like "it's to prevent people from burning out" and "it provides incentive to log in weekly".

[CaedemSanguis]

What content will you do once you have BiS?

ultimates in several jobs
criterion in several jobs
logs in savage with several jobs