Is it time for enrage timers in normal content?

[All_Nonsense]

Why do i as a tank who did things correctly get punished for my party's failure to execute simple mechanics and incompetence?

Have you played an MMO before? You succeed or fail as a group brewski. I am a tank main and even I understand this much. You might be new to the game though or came here for the RP so I'll explain for you:

Unless you can queue solo into a duty and complete it by yourself, you need other people there to beat it with you. That means that everyone has to carry their own weight, and it also means that when you pug with randos who aren't very good you have to either leave, or deal with it like every other grown adult has to. This is a core tenant of MMO's. There is a social aspect to it. If you wanna play a solo JRPG then go check one of the thousand "I'm quitting wahh" threads and see what your options are

[All_Nonsense]

Adding enrages to normal mode sounds good in theory, but it probably wouldn’t work out well in practice.

Alexander, Deathgaze Hollow, Deltascape O1, Proto Ultima, final boss in Fractal Continuum, Haukke Manor (hard), Bismark, and Ruby Weapon would all like to have a word with you (they enrage, did you know that?)

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

We literally used to have enrages in normal content. You almost never saw them.

I think it was ShB who killed them outright, like it did so many other things.

Speaking as someone who's played since 2.0, Overall time based hard enrages in Normal mode content was barely a thing as is besides the mid-fight add phases which still exist in SHB+ in plentiful amounts. (73, 79, 89, Several 90 trials, 93 all have mid fight enrages)

Off the top of my head I could only think of:

-Amdapor Keep boss 2
-Amdapor Keep HM pack before final boss
-Wanderer's Palace final boss
-Steps of Faith
-Bismark NM
-Technically Shinryu since you'd eventually reach a point where all platforms are broken and chains/Tidal wave/Aerial Blast become unsolvable
-Maybe some of the Alexander raids? Cant remember if any of NMs had a hard enrage or not. (A1 has a hard enrage but its based on boss dying and not time)
-Fractal Continuum HM
-Ruby Weapon NM, ironically, is one of the only NM trials to actually have a time based hard enrage.

Either way, the vast majority of normal mode content even in the old day didn't have hard enrages, the lack of them isn't something new.

[Payadopa]

Absolutely not.
Why do i as a tank who did things correctly get punished for my party's failure to execute simple mechanics and incompetence?

You are playing a video game. Nobody is being punished. If it is that unbearable to you maybe you shouldn't play MMOs.

Some people have such a warped view of how games should only cater to them and if you're not 100% perfect you're somehow the devil.

I'd even go further and argue that the game is at its best when stuff goes wrong. lol

[CaptainLagbeard]

I haven't tested all of them, but I know for certain that A8 and A12 have enrage timers.

A8, the entire party will just get spam hit for 100% of HP worth of damage after 12 minutes of the first enemy being pulled.
A12, a few minutes after the big Alexander gets summoned in the last phase, it will use Judgement to wipe the party.

[Shinku_Tachi]

Even though we don't all agree on how it should be fixed, it's nice to see so many people agree that we have an issue here that needs to be fixed.

Through continued discussion of the topic, hopefully we are able to get the attention of the community team and get this problem addressed.

Keep it up everyone! <3

[kajv95]

Sorry I don't mean be like "um ackshully" but I just wanted you to know you can leave instances even during combat now. Granted yes there will likely be a lockout but I don't know about you I'd take that over being witness to someone's desire to flex. Remove the audience and no doubt it'd suddenly be not as appealing.

To "Um ackshully" straight back; [When undertaking duties using the Unrestricted Party option, players can now elect to leave a duty even during combat.]

This is not the case in regular DF, only when using unrestricted party.

[Vyrerus]

Translation - I stood in the yellow

Not necessarily. There are group stacks and spread stacks that retarget onto the same individual and are unavoidable. I'll give a recent example:

I've been leveling Viper as my melee to finish role quests, and I recently ran a 55ish minute Skydeep Cenote.

Party comp was WAR VPR PCT SCH. SCH was basically high or idk. Trash pulls were super slow cause SCH was practically AFK and PCT was idk, slow but doing their AOEs at least.

First boss, SCH stood still doing nothing and died immediately to first bubble wave. PCT died a little later, having almost no self sustain. WAR wasn't Nascent Flashing anybody. But you know, as long as you avoid the bubbles, you take little damage, so Bloodbath saw me through just fine.

Second boss, SCH stood still doing nothing and eventually died. PCT died a little later. Knew it was coming. Group stack happens. I live. I refill HP with Bloodbath and second wind. Raid wide happens. No Nascent Flash. I ask for Nascent Flash. No response. Two GCDs later, he uses Bloodwhetting at nearly full HP. Next group stack comes around again. He uses unbuffed Shake it Off. I live with 400 HP. HQ Hyper Potion, Bloodbath comes off cool down just as next raid wide starts. I find myself 11k HP short of surviving the raid wide and die. Boss is at 28%. WAR elects to finish it off over the course of several more minutes and brags about WAR's OP nature. I say, "Yeah it'd be more OP if you Nascent Flash'd somebody."

We slowly trudge to final boss. I know it's not gonna go well. Same song and dance. We reach the group stacks. I live through the first couple. No more healing for myself by the third. Die. WAR isn't playing really well and inevitably dies as well, because there are many group stacks and a repeated group stack with the whole fist slam x4 or whatever. A few attempts later he's Nascent Flashing me, but he's not really cognizant of how much damage is happening and isn't really trying hard to keep me up.

Again and again we fight it, same result every time. I start explaining to the SCH and PCT the mechanics, which somehow gets them to not just stand still. It still takes 3 more attempts after they've spent two attempts learning this regular dungeon boss.

So it really is a case of a lot people who play tank are just living off of tank privilege. He probably could have soloed final boss of Skydeep if he was skilled in rotating his CDs, but he would barely use them, let alone use them at the right time.

But you know, there I was playing Viper to the fullest and even using consumable healing, and I couldn't live more than half a fight due to raid wides or group stacks. Even standing outside the group stack, I inevitably took too much mandatory damage and needed healing outside myself to live.

And you know this is actually an age old problem. Tanks are too durable while everyone else is made out of paper. I'd rather they made other people more durable than thin Tanks' armor, but they really don't want too. I myself am actually something of a long time tank and melee main that dabbles in the other two roles when they feel like fun. The first boss I ever tank privileged my party to victory for was the Chimera in Cutter's Cry in 2.0 on PLD by kiting it and spamming Shield Lob and when I ran out of TP, I would refill my HP steadily by kiting and spamming Cure when Chimera stopped to do its moves. It was like a 19 minute fight, but my party just didn't have the reaction time to do in and out for Ram's/Dragon's, and the healer wouldn't heal through it (or just wound up death themselves). But you know, outside the casted moves, Chimera hit like a wet noodle even with critical hits being allowed to happen back then.

In my long time experience I've seen parties both enjoy seeing a tank solo, as well as seeing them lament that ability. I personally want more durable DPS so that I can carry my other members when the tank isn't up to snuff either. With even just a second charge of Second Wind and Bloodbath, I probably could have pushed them past that final boss without them having to learn it. Cause you know, at the end of the day, there's a lot of players that are only running dungeons because of roulettes, and they really don't wanna learn. They want that carry, and to have that carry they gotta have some players in OP jobs doing the heavy lifting.

[LilimoLimomo]

Everyone is immortal if they do the fight correctly.

The bizarre thing is that people somehow believe this. Or perhaps they're just trolling? It's genuinely hard to tell.

Regardless, plenty of fights have unavoidable damage. I've done plenty of fights as a Black Mage where I perform all the mechanics correctly and even make optimal use of my single defensive cooldown, but I still die because unavoidable damage eventually does you in when your healer is on the ground.

[Maxilor]

Why? If I want to solo a boss as a tank after my entire party wiped due to incompetence, that's my choice.

This just comes off to me as incredibly selfish.

"that's my choice" to force my teammates to watch as I slowly wittle down a boss's health for 15-20 minutes.

Gee thanks.