It's time to Lock Out Machinist from PF

[aiqa]

Except they do matter a lot actually. I have read too many comments saying things like 'none of the attacks are satisfying,' 'too busy for little reward,' 'boring burst shot spam.' etc. So while the math says that BRD is strong now, the actual vicarial gameplay does not. There is a disconnect, and that needs to change.

Same for DNC, except the actual numbers are a bit lower. Still feels very weak when playing the game. And judging by the numerous complaints from MCH players, also same for MCH.

[mallleable]

There is also definitely personal bias in wanting BRD to have more firepower, but that perception is also colored by its PVP version which has walking casts. If walking casts get translated over to PVE than it means that BRD, and MCH should have much higher personal damage.

[Zarkovitch]

if its barse then meh. But prog wth MCH is good classe to prog with tools they have.

[NightHour]

Plenty of Machinist's are clearing the raid tier.

The job is not so bad that it can't clear.

[Corwin_Sunchaser]

Plenty of Machinist's are clearing the raid tier.

The job is not so bad that it can't clear.

Indeed, but MCH low rdps means you contribute less than another job at equal skill and make the fight harder for your group. While I can understand some people are not confident enough to bring a MCH in their group, it's really frustrating to see groups who lock out MCH when the only real reason is poor balancing from SE.

[Ramiee]

DNC and BRD team buffs are already included in rDPS. So it's not fair to say they should have lower rDPS because they have buffs that are already accounted for in rDPS. If anything jobs that bring team DPS buffs should have slightly higher rDPS then purely selfish jobs. For aDPS and nDPS, selfish jobs should be higher. And they always are.

I didn't say DNC and BRD should have lower rDPS then MCH though. I just said MCH rDPS is too low and needs aDPS and rDPS to be buffed since it's technically the selfish physrange job. I also said in that sentence that BRD and DNC also need damage buffs so in fact it was the opposite. rDPS is way too important in the game due to the buff alignment meta basically being forced, I really wish it could be as simple as rDPS matters mostly for buff based jobs but that just ain't possible currently.

[HyperiusUltima]

This person has not even played dawntrail machinist let alone cleared any content

So I go back reading the thread, and you start Lodestone shaming? Yeesh. Just because you don't play a job doesn't mean you can't understand how it functions. Not to mention, MCH only gets very few things added onto its 90 rotation which are our 2m Full Metal Field and Excavator from Chainsaw. What's annoying is that I have actually bothered to poke around logs and lo and behold, MCH is the worst DPS in the game because it's not allowed to be a Pure DPS.

rDPS tends to be the biggest trend this tier considering we got a lot more 2m Burst happening after they double downed on it from Endwalker. Even checking nDPS and aDPS, MCH only comes out on top of just the bottom of the barrel, which are RDM/SMN along with the other two Ranged. It doesn't make sense why it should have the lowest rDPS since it's supposed to be the Pure DPS of the Physical Ranged role.

Locking out MCH is the only answer at this point since we're early in the tier and it sends a message that they need to fix it before Alliance Raid Patch. If a job with utility does far more contribution than a Pure DPS that barely has any, then there's a major problem.

[RaZz0r]

Why would you want to lock MCH out of PF It's where the job shines the most, any MCH worth their salt would know this your average PF DPS can barely press their buttons in the right order.
There is no way they can properly hold their 2-min burst for the right windows making the BRD/DNC buffs lose the majority of their value and while yes I have not cleared m4s yet.

I cleared m1-m3s in PF and I absolutely dunked on pretty much every single "pure dps" as an average MCH at best with a bit of game sense.
MCH absolutely has issues at the top end of the spectrum but on the average PF skill level as much as I hate to say it MCH is fine at that skill level.

HOWEVER, MCH still needs some loving to make it worthwhile at the top end at a 99 MCH parse I'm doing about the equivalent of a 50-60% parse of a melee or caster which is messed up.
I'm just lucky my friends are willing to take me along as while it's not the best they know I'm reliable and consistent with my output.

Compared to your average PF melee or caster who tends to parse at round the 20-30% mark, sometimes lower the PF issues is an overall low skill issue not an MCH job issue

[CidHeiral]

Posts like this are why the jobs are so homogenized.

[Corwin_Sunchaser]

HOWEVER, MCH still needs some loving to make it worthwhile at the top end at a 99 MCH parse I'm doing about the equivalent of a 50-60% parse of a melee or caster which is messed up.
I'm just lucky my friends are willing to take me along as while it's not the best they know I'm reliable and consistent with my output.

This.
I did a 98 parse yesterday and doing only 200rdps more than our viper player who died and ended with a parse in the 50s.

Melees can mess up die, get raised and still do about the same dps as MCH. How does that make sense?