Let me Veto the Nier Raid

[Rueby]

They're bad because people don't know the mechanics and start to form an intimate relationship with the floor...and the bosses are abit tanky. It's no circus tower, but I'd rather the Nier raids than boring circus tower (and now eyestrain tower raids). Sure. I'll veto the ARR raids so we can all be Ivalice enjoyers

[lolnotacat]

I'll veto the ARR raids so we can all be Ivalice enjoyers

Gotta rebalance them so people ragequit like back during the Stormblood days.

[Supersnow845]

Nier- is the only raid series that hasn’t been so bloated with ilvl creep you can basically fall asleep and still clear it in 12 minutes

14 community; ewwww gross pls nerf

Every other alliance raid- literal beige nothing ruined by potency creep so nobody notices you spamming hakaze

14 community; yes this right here, this is perfect


We truly get the garbage we deserve in casual endgame content when people defend myths over nier

[CaptainLagbeard]

Nier- is the only raid series that hasn’t been so bloated with ilvl creep you can basically fall asleep and still clear it in 12 minutes

14 community; ewwww gross pls nerf

Every other alliance raid- literal beige nothing ruined by potency creep so nobody notices you spamming hakaze

14 community; yes this right here, this is perfect


We truly get the garbage we deserve in casual endgame content when people defend myths over nier

More HP does not make bosses harder or more complex.

Dun Scaith even nowadays certain attacks can still absolutely murder unprepared people... Just like a Raid should.

Orbonne Monastery is considered so hard by Square, that it's the only Alliance Raid that has an Echo buff.

[Supersnow845]

More HP does not make bosses harder or more complex.

Dun Scaith even nowadays certain attacks can still absolutely murder unprepared people... Just like a Raid should.

Orbonne Monastery is considered so hard by Square, that it's the only Alliance Raid that has an Echo buff.

More HP doesn’t make something harder……….unless said HP makes it so you can’t skip the bosses most dangerous mechanics

For example the first boss of dun scaith using your example, his two most dangerous moves are void aero 4 and his soft enrage. In an average fight these days you’ll see void aero 4 once (at launch it wasn’t uncommon to see it 4 times) and his soft enrage never comes into play because you will only ever see him fill maybe 4 of the 8 tiles with the void flooring (and you never see his most devastating combo of void aero 4 into soft enrage with 7 out of 8 tiles in danger)


Orbonne is still 40+ minutes even with echo so that basically just proves my point

Alliance bosses are given a specific amount of HP because it allows them to show off their full suite of mechanics before they die, bloating the ilvl synch or reducing the actual boss HP (like in myths) means you skip the bosses actual difficult combos of mechanics which makes the fight way easier. If you cut red girls HP by 15% you’d no longer see double meteor. Cut 3rd puppets HP by 10% and you’d no longer see the wall bot mechanic with only one tiny safe zone, cut 9S HP by 10% and you’d no longer get swoops+red floor AOE’s

[CaptainLagbeard]

More HP doesn’t make something harder……….unless said HP makes it so you can’t skip the bosses most dangerous mechanics

For example the first boss of dun scaith using your example, his two most dangerous moves are void aero 4 and his soft enrage. In an average fight these days you’ll see void aero 4 once (at launch it wasn’t uncommon to see it 4 times) and his soft enrage never comes into play because you will only ever see him fill maybe 4 of the 8 tiles with the void flooring (and you never see his most devastating combo of void aero 4 into soft enrage with 7 out of 8 tiles in danger)


Orbonne is still 40+ minutes even with echo so that basically just proves my point

Alliance bosses are given a specific amount of HP because it allows them to show off their full suite of mechanics before they die, bloating the ilvl synch or reducing the actual boss HP (like in myths) means you skip the bosses actual difficult combos of mechanics which makes the fight way easier. If you cut red girls HP by 15% you’d no longer see double meteor. Cut 3rd puppets HP by 10% and you’d no longer see the wall bot mechanic with only one tiny safe zone, cut 9S HP by 10% and you’d no longer get swoops+red floor AOE’s

Deathgaze's soft enrage never really came into play during HW... The time limit was so generous that he would always die well before reaching it, I think I've seen it go off exactly once because people just couldn't figure out Aero 4 or Void Death, and it was years after HW...

But for the topic of HP...
They could always increase the pace of the fights, by getting rid of some of the downtime between mechanics so they'll do more in a shorter amount of time. And and by doing that you don't need a 10 minute boss fight to show off all the mechanics. Sometimes they even get to do everything twice with a slightly harder version, maybe just make that harder version the default so they don't need to spend 8 minutes to get to it.

[Kuroka]

Orbonne Monastery is considered so hard by Square, that it's the only Alliance Raid that has an Echo buff.

Its what the baseline should be... at the very least for the 2nd and third part.

Deathgaze's soft enrage never really came into play during HW... The time limit was so generous that he would always die well before reaching it, I think I've seen it go off exactly once because people just couldn't figure out Aero 4 or Void Death, and it was years after HW...

Then you were either really lucky or i was really unlucky, we had so many runs where we died on it or barely made it. But the overall playerlevel wasnt that bad back then - imagine something like Ozma or pre nerfs Orbonne now...

But back then we had wipes on every single boss every now and then... even Proto ultima... heck ive had one wipe where they managed to fullwipe on the first trash pack of Orbonne xD

[Remolia]

Orbonne Monastery is considered so hard by Square, that it's the only Alliance Raid that has an Echo buff.

I right click on the echo buff

[Kaurhz]

We truly get the garbage we deserve in casual endgame content when people defend myths over nier

They are both garbage, at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

[PercibelTheren]

Nier- is the only raid series that hasn’t been so bloated with ilvl creep you can basically fall asleep and still clear it in 12 minutes

14 community; ewwww gross pls nerf

Every other alliance raid- literal beige nothing ruined by potency creep so nobody notices you spamming hakaze

14 community; yes this right here, this is perfect


We truly get the garbage we deserve in casual endgame content when people defend myths over nier

People can dislike raids on grounds other than difficulty. Personally, I think NieR raids are about as boring as CT raids, they just take twice as long because the bosses have too much HP. Unless a sufficient amount of DPS players are pressing their buttons, half the bosses manage to cycle through all of their mechanics twice sometimes. But then I also don't like the NieR aesthetic and thought the storyline was incredibly stupid, so I think their only redeeming quality is the music.