The Actual Problem With Dawntrail

[Raven2014]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety. They'd be able to give characters like Krile some time while keeping Wuk Lamat in the scenes she needs to be a main player in. I'm not talking about huge spans of story where nothing happens. I'm talking about chances to better reinforce what's already there.

Or look at this way. If the writers know they had 30h and 120 quest to tell a story, they should have chosen a storyboard that can be told in that time frame. Like if someone is cooking and decide to make stew knowing they only have 30 min, than that's either a bad cook or a stupid cook, make no difference to the result. A good cook would have chosen a steam or stir fried recipe and have a fantastic result in 30min.

[arstoka]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety. They'd be able to give characters like Krile some time while keeping Wuk Lamat in the scenes she needs to be a main player in. I'm not talking about huge spans of story where nothing happens. I'm talking about chances to better reinforce what's already there.

I disagree. A longer story does not make a better story. The writers had plenty of time to tell a story with the run time of about 40 hours. The story didn't need more time, it needed an editor to cut out all the repeated dialogue and information, to cut down on Wuk Lamat's screen time, to flesh out the characters by diversifying important moments and character beats, to make reasonable stakes based on actual character conflict, and to elaborate on core concepts and themes.

It is a failure of the writing staff to be able to create a compelling story, to balance character arcs, themes, plot points, etc. In fact, giving the writers MORE time would be detrimental to the story because you're giving them the freedom to elongate certain aspects. In my humble opinion, the story should have been shorter and more concise. A good team of writers would be able to balance and make better use of visual short hand and dialogue. And unlike traditional writers, the writers could have used the visual media to drive the messaging and character arcs and personalities further. I could go on but I will leave that for now.

[ConantSivrha]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety.

They had time, it was just used inefficiently. 21 hours of cutscenes isn’t short by any standard, and as funny as I think it is to accuse Dawntrail of being one long cutscene, the cutscenes are only part of the time it takes to play through Dawntrail in full.

[Derio]

The problem was Jobs stayed almost the same with a few QOL. So we are basically playing EW 2.0 with a slight change in combat design. So the pressure is on the encounter design and story. Since the story did not deliver, many people feel like DT is half baked.

[BrokenFantasy]

This may or may not be me about the kick a hornet's nest but I'll say it anyway.

I think a lot of players are missing the forest for the trees. Wuk Lamat isn't the problem.

If she wasn't around during most of the scenes where she is then it'd look like she's just sitting on her hands and doing nothing. The first half is her journey to leadership and the second half is how she handles leading. We can help her but we can't do the job for her. She has to be the driving force. When the game tried something like this in Stormblood there weren't many scenes showing Lyse's skills as a leader until the patches, and players thought she was unqualified because of it. The writers didn't want to repeat that.

I think the actual problem is this: Dawntrail is too short. 2.0 had about 160 quests (even more originally) to reintroduce players to Eorzea. 7.0 has only 100, even though we're exploring a whole new landmass and a nation from another shard. That's why these players feel exhausted. Everything is crammed together and there's not enough time to fully explore what the writers want to explore. Wuk Lamat takes the blame for this larger issue because she's the most prominent character.

Dawntrail isn't a bad expansion and the patches might improve it, but Square Enix should be less afraid to make longer expansions. I know a lot of people dislike A Realm Reborn for being tedious, but in the case of Dawntrail I think that kind of length could help.

She's part of the problem. How many times did we hear spout "I wAnT pEaCe" (without really elaborating on how to achieve it)? How many times were our WoLs and the Scions forced to stand by and listen to the same idealistic, borderline naive crap trotted out by her, or worse yet, forced by the narrative to refrain from intervening EVEN AFTER sore loser Zoraal Ja resurrected himself to kill her precious Papa? She wasn't too bad otherwise, even somewhat endearing in spots, but she's had more than her fair share of time in the spotlight.

[Endy_Sinkai]

Im sorry the problem for me is in fact Wuk.

The all encompassing nature of the character, coupled with how god awful the writing was for the first time since 1.0 made me stop loving the number one thing I loved about this game.

Which is the story. I don't want to log on anymore and going forward if I see wuk I will do something I never have done and skip the cut scene.

I am just so over this character. She 100% ruined this expansion along with top teir trash writing.

Plus other issues. However it is in fact 90% wuk.

Also not a single one of my friends wants to play anymore because because of the story either. So I don't have my raid team either.

So my interest in the patch content has basically disintegrated. I haven't been this upset since 1.0.

Going to let my sub lapse and let somebody have my medium house.

[Aldath]

Wuk Lamat is not the problem, it's the writer. Not only she was badly written, majority of the characters were bad, even the Scions.

Honestly, I think it's time to let the Scions rest. Not writing them out of the plot, but sidelining them. I'm OK with Alphy/Alisae still being the WoL's mouthpieces, it's just that the presence of everyone else feels very tacked on.

[Raven2014]

If they haven't, I feel FF14 writer should try to play through the Trail of Cold Steel series. I like the dynamis between the old class 7 and the new class 7.

[StormChase]

Come to think of it, I have an addendum to make.

First, I do think another problem is that Dawntrail added characters that really didn't need to be there.

Heavensward was able to feel more personal with more of its characters because for a good portion there were only three traveling with us (Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysayle). Throughout the first half of Dawntrail there are five (Alphinaud, Alisaie, Krile, Erenville, and Wuk Lamat). Alphinaud and Alisaie were with us to learn how they can deal with Garlemald better, but what we learned was pretty much what we knew (understanding the past can help us understand the present). Also, they've already gone through their own character arcs. The writers could've left the twins and there wouldn't really be any consequences.

Second, I have a few questions for the people calling Wuk Lamat a Mary Sue. I didn't want to be too confrontational when I started this thread, but I think these are questions worth asking.

Do you actually think she's a Mary Sue, or are you mad your character isn't the center of attention right now?

If you really do think she is, doesn't that mean the WOL also is on an even greater level?

If she failed harder (which I do think she should've gotten the chance to but I have a feeling why she didn't) would you like her more, or would you say she's even less qualified like what Lyse was accused of?

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Too high expectation(s) from player base. IMHO.

I went in ready to be happy with the most basic writing as long as it didn't have my character wipe out any people or colonize anyone... People hated the patches, I didn't have a complaint. "Power of friendship! Woot! Whatever! No entire peoples are being wiped out!"

My expectations were at the bottom of the ocean and the DT writers pulled out a shovel... Not only did I get Genocide 2: The Zone, right after I was secure that at least we didn't do a colonialism, we kill the Alexandrian monarchs and install a child king under our control... And on top of what I believed were very reasonable requests. Maybe my hero character could like not do a bunch of evil stuff... The writing quality was shockingly bad. It's riddled with contradictions and plotholes, no characterization and the pacing is a crime against humanity.

They could have served me a Lunchable and I would have been perfectly happy, but they served me flaming poop and now people are trying to assure me it's fondue actually. No, it's not. I know what I saw.