The Actual Problem With Dawntrail

[Magikazam]

The issue is making a npc the major driving force and making it ''her story''. It wouldn't matter if they wrote her better or had better pacing to the story. They didn't write correctly for the media they're using. This is a rpg. If you want to tell a story, you need to tell the player character one. That story don't require high stakes or to be a big plot that will change the universe forever, hell it don't even need to be the most important event going on in the in-game world at the moment, but it need to have the player at it center.

Just look at Shb msq. The story is about the WoL saving the first by slaying the light wardens and becoming the shadowbringer. Yet it Introduce Emet, who, just like Wuk follow us almost everywhere. He has litteral plot armor to justify why we can't get rid of him until the end of msq. Yet people don't hate him. The reason is simple. While has a strong presence and take a lot of screen time, he not the protagonist of the story, he not the the one going around killing lightwarden. Hell, you could remove him from the MSQ and the whole scenario don't need to change that much. Just add a new lightwarden and make Vauthry the Big bad evil guys. Then just throw Amaurot dungeon in post 5.0 MSQ, make him and Elidibus yap a bit a bout the final day then make them team on us during the last fight and the story stay roughtly the same.

[chizLemons]

It's already been said before but I'm going to repeat it anyway.
The actual problem with Dawntrail is the writing quality. The story, plot and ideas are fine, but the writing is abysmal, no matter the language you're playing it in, and no matter how long or short it is.
For me it seems like someone, maybe a senior writer in a less hands-on role, made an outline of themes to dive into and a few important plot points suggestions (and maybe even wrote that one quest everyone agrees is far better written than everything else), and basically gave the connect-the-dots homework to the current writers...who didn't know what they were doing and completely failed to connect the dots. And then no one came back to check their homework before publishing it.

The characterization of everyone is off, they kept losing the threads of the themes they were trying to portray and missing opportunities to dive into it, there is no proper build up for any cool or important moments they rushed to get to - which a lot of them they tried to mimic from past expansions (and failed, because what made them cool was not the moment itself, but earning it through everything that came before it), a lot of times the characters felt like tools to get to a point, they didn't know what to do with the player character at all, and it all reads like they don't know who their audience is - there is no subtext, everything is plain and explained and repeated directly like it's meant for a far younger audience. The themes of Dawntrail aren't childish, but the way they talk about them is. It's all simplified and they tell you exactly what they want you to be feeling, while dismissing any complicated questions because they don't want to deal with it.


If the writers were better, even the gameplay during the MSQ would be, as well. Better writers would be able to be more creative than "Speak with Wuk Lamat" and "Speak with 0/3 locals", think of different gameplay quests to include, know when to give up on a cool moment cutscene for a fun solo duty instead...

[Vyrerus]

Wuk Lamat isn't the problem

Nope. Wuk Lamat is 100% the problem.

Nothing in Dawntrail established that she has leadership skills. I repeat, Nothing in Dawntrail established that Wuk Lamat had or developed leadership skills.

The rite of succession's goal was to teach the prospective promises about their own land and peoples that make up Tulliyollal. Just understanding one's culture and being proud of it is not a leadership skill. Just wanting peace and happiness is not a leadership skill.

Leadership is about making tough calls and solving difficult problems by whatever means are available to you. Koana was the one who did and demonstrated these things throughout the first half of Dawntrail. He and we are placated by Wuk Lamat opting to, "Make Koana the Head of Reason." i.e. Foist all of the actual leadership responsibility onto him. This fact is highlighted by the fact that Wuk Lamat's second arc is a quest for revenge, where Koana actually stays behind to lead the people of Tullioyollal while Wuk Lamat sets out with the WoL and Co. to avenge Gulool Ja Ja.

While she's away not leading her people, Koana signs a treaty with Radz-at-Han and gains Tulliyollal new allies.

What we get "leadership" wise with Wuk Lamat is a bunch of Wuk Lamat dialogue lines with Sphene about how she "understands what it's like to lead and care for her people." Even though she's "lead" them for all of an afternoon.

Dawntrail is a bad expansion with a bad main character, and the patches will have to do some Olympic level writing gymnastics to improve it.

[DynnDiablos]

LONGER? Oh, please god no. I love the story and MSQ in FFXIV but by the final zone of Dawntrail I was actually skipping cutscenes which is something I NEVER do. I was so ready for it to be over.

[StormChase]

LONGER? Oh, please god no. I love the story and MSQ in FFXIV but by the final zone of Dawntrail I was actually skipping cutscenes which is something I NEVER do. I was so ready for it to be over.

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety. They'd be able to give characters like Krile some time while keeping Wuk Lamat in the scenes she needs to be a main player in. I'm not talking about huge spans of story where nothing happens. I'm talking about chances to better reinforce what's already there.

[Raven2014]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety. They'd be able to give characters like Krile some time while keeping Wuk Lamat in the scenes she needs to be a main player in. I'm not talking about huge spans of story where nothing happens. I'm talking about chances to better reinforce what's already there.

Or look at this way. If the writers know they had 30h and 120 quest to tell a story, they should have chosen a storyboard that can be told in that time frame. Like if someone is cooking and decide to make stew knowing they only have 30 min, than that's either a bad cook or a stupid cook, make no difference to the result. A good cook would have chosen a steam or stir fried recipe and have a fantastic result in 30min.

[arstoka]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety. They'd be able to give characters like Krile some time while keeping Wuk Lamat in the scenes she needs to be a main player in. I'm not talking about huge spans of story where nothing happens. I'm talking about chances to better reinforce what's already there.

I disagree. A longer story does not make a better story. The writers had plenty of time to tell a story with the run time of about 40 hours. The story didn't need more time, it needed an editor to cut out all the repeated dialogue and information, to cut down on Wuk Lamat's screen time, to flesh out the characters by diversifying important moments and character beats, to make reasonable stakes based on actual character conflict, and to elaborate on core concepts and themes.

It is a failure of the writing staff to be able to create a compelling story, to balance character arcs, themes, plot points, etc. In fact, giving the writers MORE time would be detrimental to the story because you're giving them the freedom to elongate certain aspects. In my humble opinion, the story should have been shorter and more concise. A good team of writers would be able to balance and make better use of visual short hand and dialogue. And unlike traditional writers, the writers could have used the visual media to drive the messaging and character arcs and personalities further. I could go on but I will leave that for now.

[ConantSivrha]

Look at it this way. If the writers had more time they'd be able to focus more on other characters as well, better establish themes and motives without sacrificing subtlety.

They had time, it was just used inefficiently. 21 hours of cutscenes isn’t short by any standard, and as funny as I think it is to accuse Dawntrail of being one long cutscene, the cutscenes are only part of the time it takes to play through Dawntrail in full.

[Nebelheim]

Hiroi has written sidequest and side stories for years on ff14 and this is what he gives us for a main story. Has he not learned how to write a good main scenario in 10 years of being on the writing team for this game and working under koji fox and ishikawa. At one point I was expecting wuk lamat to pull a tidus from ff10 and constantly proclaim "this is my story".

[Derio]

The problem was Jobs stayed almost the same with a few QOL. So we are basically playing EW 2.0 with a slight change in combat design. So the pressure is on the encounter design and story. Since the story did not deliver, many people feel like DT is half baked.