Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

[Annihilism]

What if 1st place got a full level, 2nd place a third of a level and 3rd place half a level?

[Router]

What if 1st place got a full level, 2nd place a third of a level and 3rd place half a level?

Rewards for 2nd and 3rd place should be the same. No one wants to see 2nd place teams attacking 3rd place to "secure" their higher reward.

[Divinemights]

Well, at least SE clearly will action on reports against the leechers:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...stomer-support

[LalaRu]

If I end up in a match that feels horribly skewed (it happens quickly, when it is), I just blame my bad luck and hope in a better match tomorrow.

[Ramiren]

It seems to me that the simple answer is just to remove normal XP from PvP and completely separate the game modes, you can't really complain about people joining PvP and half-assing it when the developers have enticed people in with a conflicting interest.

By tying such a huge chunk of our daily bonus XP to a PvP roulette activity, they aren't enticing PvP players in, they're enticing levelling players in, their goal was never to play PvP rank up and earn PvP rewards in the first place, it was always to level their characters.

The developers do it to pad the queue because realistically they know the game mode sucks and would have horrendous queue times otherwise.

Sure, they could offer XP rewards based on how well players did, but you aren't just penalizing lazy players with that move, you're also disincentivizing new players who need time to actually learn, and christ do they need time given how awful the new player pvp experience is.

[Loggos]

The developers do it to pad the queue because realistically they know the game mode sucks and would have horrendous queue times otherwise.

I know it won't solve the issue but I wonder if reducing the three factions to 8v8v8 versus 24v24v24 could help to make the whole scope of the mode more realistic so that it doesn't need (as much) padding.
I understand the appeal of the mode's "big battle" feeling but at the same time sometimes (esp. if there is no good lead) it feels really chaotic and random. It's basically just "focus the nearest player down" without much thinking/tactical calculating and coordination going on, when big clouds of players smash into each other. 8v8v8 does not have the same level of epicness but in addition to shorter/easier queues it might allow for coordination and team work to more strategic.

Either way, I just really miss some more content for smaller teams. "Push the crystal" is a nice game mode but you could do so much more. I'd love to play "seize the flag"/"win the check point" or even "protect the payload" with smaller groups and perhaps more than two factions.

[Grumblecakes]

Changing rewards based on winning is all well and good if PVP in this game actually had balance amd skill instead of DRK/DRG gang bang. CC is decent but frontlines is a mess and always will be.

[Mawlzy]

Changing rewards based on winning is all well and good if PVP in this game actually had balance amd skill instead of DRK/DRG gang bang. CC is decent but frontlines is a mess and always will be.

That may be true in practice, but I'd suggest that would reflect lack of effort on the part of the devs rather than something intrinsic to the concept.

[Aravell]

An obvious problem with forcing it to go back to 8v8v8 is that individual skill level is multiplied exponentially in importance.

Let's say that you have 3 people in your team in current FL who don't understand how to survive a dive/burst, that would mean 3/24 die and you still have 21/24 people to launch a counterattack. Now imagine you get those same 3 people in 8v8v8, that's the equivalent of 9 people dying, so now those 3 players are having a far larger negative impact on the team by simply being of lower skill/experience.

This could end up discouraging players that are new to the mode even more, because they cover a larger part of the team and so they contribute more (negatively or positively).

[Loggos]

I forgot to add I'd also remove an 8v8v8 fight from the exp roulette to make sure only those who are actively interested in PvP seek it out.

I'm not sure I really agree with your point re: inexperienced players though. In my experience this is a problem in all kinds of games with competitive play. In a 5v5 having 2-3 inexperienced players can easily cost you a game.
I don't think getting stomped in CC is less frustrating than potentially getting stomped in an 8v8v8. And yet I wouldn't say having this mode is futile, even though you could argue such a game mode might turn off newer players more because their responsibility for a team loss is even greater. In the end everybody has to start somewhere and as soon as you mix inexperienced players with experienced players there will always be "unfair" games where one team has particularly good or bad players.


That doesn't prevent people from coming back and learning though if the mode is fun enough.
When I started out CC some years ago I was so overwhelmed I was a walking instant target because I had never PvPed before but the game mode was still fun enough for me to keep trying.
(Though I have to add, CC not having a chat function did help a lot to remove a lot of that nervousness as a PvP sprout.)

I think if an 8v8v8 game mode is designed properly and has some good initiations for newer players it could work.

One thing that overwatch is doing quite well for example is having training matches against AI teams with varying diffulty.
You could in theory also have such a "training" mode in the duty finder where 8 players can play practice matches against AI parties.

I know this is the most unrealistic part because the devs would never I guess.
But in principle I think this could be a workable solution.