Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

[Mawlzy]

Given basically everyone has 21 jobs to level at least by 10 levels, this problem (which I agree has gotten worse) is going to persist for a long time. As discussed elsewhere, performance-based rewards are tricky, simply because of the intrinsic typical K/D/A variations between jobs. It's also a heavier lift for SQEX to introduce something like that, and potentially is yet another hurdle to new players getting involved.

A matchmaking algorithm strikes me as easier to implement and will mean that people who try at PvP will not have to contend with people who are doing little more than sightseeing while riding a horse.

[LilimoLimomo]

It's very difficult to balance rewards for PvP, because the purpose of the rewards is to encourage people to play who would otherwise not play.

On one hand, I think many PvP players would probably be better off if PvP didn't give rewards that had any use outside of PvP (ie - glam can only displayed in PvP areas, etc). That would filter out everyone who isn't genuinely interested in doing PvP, meaning that matches would be filled with people who actually want to do the thing they signed up for.

But that's obviously double-edged, because it's going to result in significantly longer queue times because (I would hazard) the majority of players aren't truly interested in PvP. And that has a domino effect, as many players who are truly interested in PvP are likely not so invested in it that they'll tolerate queue times beyond a certain threshold. In that way, players who don't actually want to PvP are valuable to the PvP experience.

So what about tying rewards to performance? Well, that's going to be impressively difficult to do in a holistic way. There are plenty of ways to positively contribute to your team's success that don't have to do with KDA and damage output. Decoy tactics, for example. If you can give a significant number of your enemies the run-around that prevents them from getting to where their services would be better put to use, then you're helping your team even if you didn't do a single point of damage to them. Any sort of metric that can't quantify complex events like that will needlessly homogenize play and restrict player strategy.

And honestly, I don't see CBU3 trying to judge the quality of anyone's play anytime soon. Their philosophy has generally been one of not telling players how to play and just letting them play how they want, with the lone exception of explicit harassment/griefing; I can't imagine that they would go against this policy in PvP, where competition is even more difficult than PvE since you're up against live players.

So personally, I think the only lever they have access to that they're willing to pull is adjusting the reward structure, such that the rewards are inviting to players who like PvP but are meaningless to those who don't.

[MisterNublet]

It's very difficult to balance rewards for PvP, because the purpose of the rewards is to encourage people to play who would otherwise not play.

On one hand, I think many PvP players would probably be better off if PvP didn't give rewards that had any use outside of PvP (ie - glam can only displayed in PvP areas, etc). That would filter out everyone who isn't genuinely interested in doing PvP, meaning that matches would be filled with people who actually want to do the thing they signed up for.

But that's obviously double-edged, because it's going to result in significantly longer queue times because (I would hazard) the majority of players aren't truly interested in PvP. And that has a domino effect, as many players who are truly interested in PvP are likely not so invested in it that they'll tolerate queue times beyond a certain threshold. In that way, players who don't actually want to PvP are valuable to the PvP experience.

So what about tying rewards to performance? Well, that's going to be impressively difficult to do in a holistic way. There are plenty of ways to positively contribute to your team's success that don't have to do with KDA and damage output. Decoy tactics, for example. If you can give a significant number of your enemies the run-around that prevents them from getting to where their services would be better put to use, then you're helping your team even if you didn't do a single point of damage to them. Any sort of metric that can't quantify complex events like that will needlessly homogenize play and restrict player strategy.

And honestly, I don't see CBU3 trying to judge the quality of anyone's play anytime soon. Their philosophy has generally been one of not telling players how to play and just letting them play how they want, with the lone exception of explicit harassment/griefing; I can't imagine that they would go against this policy in PvP, where competition is even more difficult than PvE since you're up against live players.

So personally, I think the only lever they have access to that they're willing to pull is adjusting the reward structure, such that the rewards are inviting to players who like PvP but are meaningless to those who don't.

The only other method I can think of for adjusting the reward system is by only allowing the 1st place team to be awarded the daily challenges bonus, while still allowing the 2nd and 3rd place teams to receive the regular duty rewards. Most of the leechers only queue up for the daily challenge rewards, and if it was tougher to receive the bonus because they purposely act as a constant hindrance to the success of their team, they are likely to stop queuing for the mode altogether.

The crummy part is, players that are actively trying will end up having to play possibly more than a few games to receive the daily challenge bonus from getting 1st place which would cause some frustration.

[george357]

this part of the game has always been a dumpster fire and will always be that way i stay away from this mess.

[Burmecia]

reward 1st and 2nd best points, but take away the rewards from the 3rd.

at least it would curb the race to the bottom. and most would walk away with something nice.

[Mawlzy]

So personally, I think the only lever they have access to that they're willing to pull is adjusting the reward structure, such that the rewards are inviting to players who like PvP but are meaningless to those who don't.

If true, I think it pushes us to having no rewards whatsoever. Basically any reward system within PvP becomes irrelevant to those who like PvP, because they play so many matches they quickly obtain all the rewards. This even includes the daily roulette XP bonus. Contrariwise, if you can't stand PvP but want to level as fast as possible, you grit your teeth and play a daily FL match. And sadly, the way to ensure your misery is kept as brief as possible is probably to feed the leading team.

[Menriq]

OP, I'm just curious. Would you feel the same way if people reported people in PvE who were considered lethargic because they were queuing up for Arcadian in artifact gear and not having materia in their gear?

[MisterNublet]

OP, I'm just curious. Would you feel the same way if people reported people in PvE who were considered lethargic because they were queuing up for Arcadian in artifact gear and not having materia in their gear?

Are they doing their dps rotation, or just standing around and only auto attacking the boss?

[Menriq]

Are they doing their rotation or standing around and only auto attacking the boss?

Doesn't matter. Just like your picture doesn't matter. You have no idea what their skill level is. They could be learning the job in PvP. Not exactly sure where you would expect them to learn group play other than FL or CC. Just because you don't think they are playing to your standards doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong.

[MisterNublet]

Doesn't matter. Just like your picture doesn't matter. You have no idea what their skill level is. They could be learning the job in PvP. Not exactly sure where you would expect them to learn group play other than FL or CC. Just because you don't think they are playing to your standards doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong.

It does matter cause your reaching and your logic is trash. You're correlating equipment worn to player performance which is extremely stupid.

Also, SE has set the duty requirement for Arcadia and a person with artifact gear is allowed to queue into based on the requirements set.

If the person was running tank busters into the party, or constantly throwing themselves off the side of the arena. I would absolutely report them.

Neat part is, you can also vote kick the offending player which a lot of times you cannot do in PvP because they're in another group.