I'm unsubbing over the Viper changes

[Evo1171]

Putting the dick measuring contest aside, anyone else just not having fun?

Yeah it's definitely not as enjoyable anymore but I already geared it up and I don't really want to swap to Ninja, I doubt they'll change it back since from what I saw on EN and JP there wasn't really many people complaining about it so this might've been an internal decision that they might've previously been thinking about and were ready to put it out if they needed too, so when people started complaining about difficulty but didn't want to change positionals they just pulled the trigger, but that's just my opinion.

[EdwinChucklenuts]

Damn the removal of one debuff really killed the class for you guys huh... One that tbh kind of interrupted the flow of its gameplay? Ok go off, the less of you guys subbed the better tbh O

[NailBach]

As a fellow Monk player, I know exactly how you're feeling.

Also unsubbed, for this among other reasons. A $15/mo charge in addition to expansion costs, for what? More cutscenes and less fun year over year?

But how are you posting if you ubsubbed?

[koko-on-da-forumz]

But how are you posting if you ubsubbed?

Got like two weeks left or something? You know cancelling your subscription doesn't remove the time you paid for, right?

Honestly, I didn't even know it took away forum access. That's kind of silly, but it's not like I planned to stay on the forums long-term lol.

[DynnDiablos]

Bye felicia

[Sivante]

I think this is a bit misplaced. Not that I'm saying there isn't good reason to be upset, hell I used to main BLM and I still cry about the loss of Enochian dancing. I get it, this detracts from the complexity that made the job enjoyable for some people regardless of how the class performs. But I want to stress that I believe this change to be a result of the debuff and buff limits of given entities in the game and them trying to find a way to get ahead of that issue before the bullet lands: Imagine the outrage if we started seeing those debuff limits reached and Bards couldn't apply their stacks because the limit was reached? Or Healers couldn't DOT, or what have you.

My point again isn't that this anger is invalid, but misplaced, or perhaps not placed with the precision it should be. Why use a hammer where a scalpel is available?

What I'm trying to get at here is that this class did just come out which suggests something telling. Either -

A) The class designers were not aware of, did not care, or did not test VPR.
B) The class designers did not communciate with others in the teams.

In either case this problem isn't that a class was adjusted so close to opening, to me anyway. The problem seems more to be 'Why did you design it like this to begin with if you were going to have to patch it in this fashion?' The problem lies specifically with the class designers at this point, insofar as I can tell.

[Evo1171]

In either case this problem isn't that a class was adjusted so close to opening, to me anyway. The problem seems more to be 'Why did you design it like this to begin with if you were going to have to patch it in this fashion?' The problem lies specifically with the class designers at this point, insofar as I can tell.

I definitely feel you're spot on with this, especially in the last two expansions, like how did we have Dkick monk twice? How did paradox blm even come to be? I think the most egregious example was Ninja last expansion that had its whole new class mechanic that it was being designed with completely gutted because, surprise, having 3 forced rushes in 6 gcd's while doing mechanics or losing around 3-4k potency was a bad idea, and lightwaves pretty much dumpstered the whole class so hard they had to change it by the time savage launched. I don't know if it's because there's too many classes or if they're just not testing properly but it is absolutely getting out of hand and the quality of class design has been markedly declining over the last 5 years, I feel like either they don't have enough people testing these classes or they don't have people testing them that are players themselves.

[HEKnTEKn]

A lot of people have been saying this doesn't really change anything... but please consider what made Noxious Gnash (NG) unique!

As a result of the 11 second awakening burst and shorter NG debuff timers, It was imperative to re-up NG just before beginning your burst, ESPECIALLY if you had the resources to double awakening, and also to save a single dreadwinder combo near burst phases to safely re-apply GN for the following coils near the end of buff phase. Removing the debuff means you no longer have to (intentionally) prep or save resources before your burst phase, which was akin to saving gauge on BRD and being sure to only fire off at 90+ charge or holding wyrmwind thrust when buffs were coming back up on DRG. The serpent offerings guage manages itself easily and isn't really a guage you pay attention to, and your goal is to make sure you DON'T save too many coils for burst phase, as you were guaranteed to gain two charges every 2 minute burst, and at least 1 every other minute. Noxious Gnash was the only true fail point to pay attention too beyond pressing glowing buttons on a railroaded combo.

Having a button to press and knowing you need to save it is extra job complexity. Needing to press a button before a critical timing in rotation is extra job complexity, and the removal of noxious gnash single handedly removes it all.

Furthermore, the change from using dread fangs to apply NG to needing to swap between the two combos has had the side effect of removing the dancing between combos. If you open with 1-1-1, combo is now, repeating for eternity: 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 1-1-2, 2-2-1. Unless you mess up, you will not find yourself ever pressing 1-2-1, or 2-1-2. The free-flowingness of following the combo route has ripped out and replaced with Monk's Dragonkick-Bootshine, or DRG's combo cycles.

In addition to the NG issues, they also went overboard in increasing the length of the general GCD combo buffs, as with 40 seconds to hit the next finisher your 22 seconds double awakening combo, tied with refreshing NG with Dreadwinder and Spending your coils under buffs meant that you had to intentionally prep every 2 minute by re-applying your NG and prepping the finisher, so that you could use the finisher right on time! These are all not necessarily hard decisions, but the only true concious decisions to be made given how absolutely free-flowing Viper is made by design. Viper was made free-flowing specifically to load the weight of engagement upon the interactions of abilities to apply NG at the right time, and to prep finishers ahead of time.

Bring it back! This is far worse than losing Kaiten was and fundamentally changes the job from it's intended identity!

[Ardeth]

If you're not happy, vote with your wallet. It's the only thing big corporations listen to.

[Underscore]

As a former DRG main who also swapped to Viper over the 7.0 changes, I feel you.

My faith that job design will be better in 8.0 like they claim has definitely been shaken.