Thread: Where is fun in 7.05 VPR?

Originally Posted by Higashikata

discourse I think is symptomatic of a larger sentiment where people are tired of them dumbing down jobs and the shiny new toy is already getting these changes after only having been out for two months. It sort of just didn't need to be changed-- For things like kaiten you could make the argument where your overall DPS could fluctuate as high as 20% if you didn't crit any of your midares while things like old twin snakes on mnk were actually difficult to optimize. NG wasn't either of those, it wasn't hard or remotely challenging to upkeep, all you had to do was make sure the number was above 30 before you did a double awaken and make sure the number was below 20 before reapplying outside of your burst. It was in no way broken or in need of repair, so why did it need to be "fixed"?

I wish it had been at least two months. But it's barely been a single month since early access and they stated the want to change it about 2 weeks into the expansion. That is obscenely fast to start making changes like this. When they stated they were making changes a lot of the playerbase hadn't even finished the MSQ yet or hit level 100. So that's definitely part of it. I think the other part is that they had said they wouldn't be simplifying jobs more, and the first thing they do is simplify Viper, which was already the most popular job in the game.

The debuff wasn't like super complicated but it did make the rotation more interesting and now it's less interesting. The interplay between buffs, the debuff, and dreadwinder surprised me and I started to really enjoy that. It's just a shame really, there were a ton of options they could've done if they wanted to simplify the rotation a bit and they picked the worst one.

Originally Posted by Higashikata

discourse I think is symptomatic of a larger sentiment where people are tired of them dumbing down jobs and the shiny new toy is already getting these changes after only having been out for two months. It sort of just didn't need to be changed-- For things like kaiten you could make the argument where your overall DPS could fluctuate as high as 20% if you didn't crit any of your midares while things like old twin snakes on mnk were actually difficult to optimize. NG wasn't either of those, it wasn't hard or remotely challenging to upkeep, all you had to do was make sure the number was above 30 before you did a double awaken and make sure the number was below 20 before reapplying outside of your burst. It was in no way broken or in need of repair, so why did it need to be "fixed"?

Agreed. It's not like it was hard, I personally found it fun where as the new system just feels like a dumped down version of Monks combo system. NG also gave the buttons a bit more interactivity between each other. You couldn't just spam Dreadwinder when it came off cd but at least had something to micromanage. It gave the job a little bit more flavor and a tiny bit more to keep track of.

This change seems incredibly weird considering no one asked for it. Yet other jobs who have actual problems go unanswered for years? DRK still generates 1.2k less mp per minute, RPR still has issues with gauge negativity, which is especially apparent now with Perfectio, Gunbreaker still has no ways of generating cartridges during downtime, MCH queen and wildfire still are absolutely worthless in aoe situations. I could go on, but these are issues the community has given SE feedback about. Hell some of these have been an issue since the media tour and instead of working on that, they change viper? Which has been out for 4 weeks?

Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

People still dont get it, the Viper changes are good, they open up a lot room for optis and non standard stuff which you hadnt before.

Please explain what you mean in detail, cause everything I see is that the changes have done the exact opposite. There is less room for optimisation (since there is less stuff to track, and to adjust for in any given fight), and even less non-standard stuff as the rotation has been cut down quite noticeably, forcing it into a very repetitive mold.

Originally Posted by ovIm

Please explain what you mean in detail, cause everything I see is that the changes have done the exact opposite. There is less room for optimisation (since there is less stuff to track, and to adjust for in any given fight), and even less non-standard stuff as the rotation has been cut down quite noticeably, forcing it into a very repetitive mold.

You can do more shenanigans with your Pots, you have more room for things like UF into Ire for some different buff aligments, right now mentors are looking yet again into triple awaken there is so much more stuff going on which wouldnt work before because of NG

"Stuff" to track isnt even a opti or anything, watching 3x in a minute a debuff, is no skillexpression or anything, people just thinking "oh i gotta watch a debuff now the first time i feel like a pro" hell naw, one application was through Dreadwinder which was a stronger filler anyway so it was a no brainer and then 2x dreadfang in a min, yea gotta need some serious skill for it.

NG was a limiter, it was the reason so much stuff didnt work