Thread: Viper changes prove 8.0 will not add job complexity

They said they would try more new things, make mistakes, listen to feedback, then adjust.

Let's not jump on the doom train because they listened to initial feedback and over corrected. That is not productive.

The problem is we could extend this argument to all jobs in the game and sand down any points of friction within a job’s kit, leaving dull, decision-less jobs saved only by flashy animations.

At what point is it acceptable to say ‘This is the floor for this job or content, if you want to do this you have to meet this level of competency?’

While you do not mind the change, many Viper mains do, as evidenced by the lively conversations happening on the official forums, Reddit and discord. I, and others, have articulated reason-based analyses on why this change has reduced the scope for skill expression on Viper, and reduced meaningful decision-making on the job substantially.

The issue with removing just ‘a timer’ (which is a reductive framing when considering the job holistically) is that there is now no meaningful decisions players need to make when playing Viper. Players who struggle with high APM and double weaving will continue to struggle, and more advanced players have been left with a job with little actual decision making involved.

While fun is experienced subjectively, reducing the scope for players to make decisions in gameplay and forcing them into a more deterministic flow is generally not considered great game design.

There are many things I feel gated from doing in the game at my current level of competence, namely Extremes, Savage and Ultimates. I also feel gated by Jobs like BLM requiring solid encounter knowledge to understand where best to place Leylines, for instance. That said, I do not believe my perception of being gated represents an argument to water-down encounter or job design to match my current skill level.

If I ever decide I want to play BLM in endgame content or do Extremes, I look at it as a challenge I have to rise to, as opposed to needing the game to come down to me.

On the flipside, they reverted tsubame changes and added ice paradox back. I think they were too hasty with VPR changes but they were receptive to feedback about pain points of other jobs and reverted some major mistakes they made with some DT jobs. It's possible they'll realize the change was a mistake and either revert it or perhaps figure out a different way to implement noxious gash (not that I think there was anything wrong with it lol)

That new wow expansion has me eyeballing it a lot rn.

Would be nice if they added an indicator whether you succeed or fail your positonals. Theres nothing that tells you if you hit the enemy in the right spot :\

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Would be nice if they added an indicator whether you succeed or fail your positonals. Theres nothing that tells you if you hit the enemy in the right spot :\

I feel like changing the damage text colour if you land the positional would be a simple thing to implement.