Viper Changes are good, actually

[Tehmon]

The Job is mostly just Zidane gameplay style but they name Viper seem to be something they chosen to reflect the whole twin sword being snake fangs.

I do not think they really mean it to be a "Viper" but just to give it a name that can provide some lore behind the Job for FF14 world since there is no real name for certain FF Character Specific jobs in their other FF games.

Honestly, the twin swords just doesn't elicit any kind of snake fang metaphor for me in this case lol. Could've called it Blademaster or Hunter or Serpent if they are hellbent on snake references, but vipers are specifically the venomous group of the snake family.

[EdwinLi]

Honestly, the twin swords just doesn't elicit any kind of snake fang metaphor for me in this case lol. Could've called it Blademaster or Hunter or Serpent if they are hellbent on snake references, but vipers are specifically the venomous group of the snake family.

I think they may have something originally planned for Viper to relation to Serpent due to how it was mentioned in the Viper story quest about the Job's origin being related to Snakes and there is maybe something about the Twin Adder's origin for the organizations name related to it but they never followed up on it in the Viper Job story quest due to the 10 level limit they have now with newer jobs for their Job story.

Either way naming a Character specific Job from a FF game that did not have a name for the specific character's unique job seem to be more related to giving a job lore reason to exists rather than a reflection of their gameplay or simply to just reflect their gameplay without needing much lore reason for their name.

They done this with Gunbreaker as well since this is a combination of Squall, Seifer, and Lightning gameplay style and they explain the name for this job was created because the "job" for Gunbreakers was to rush into combat with defensive skills that makes them temporary immune to Gun fire so they can get close and break the enemy's guns. Thus the name Gun-Breaker.

I think only Reaper is named after its gameplay rather than lore since it is just FF11 Scythe Dark Knight but they cannot use the Dark Knight name so they named it Reaper to reflect the whole Grim Reaper theme with certain mechanics and scythe attacks.

[KazumaFaemura]

The Job is mostly just Zidane gameplay style but they name it Viper seem to be something they chosen to reflect the whole twin sword being snake fangs.

I do not think they really mean it to be a "Viper" but just to give it a name that can provide some lore behind the Job for FF14 world that fights like Zidane since there is no real name for certain FF Character Specific jobs in their other FF games or they were just very modified versions of a existing FF game job.

I will not be surprised at this point if they introduce another Character based FF job like Zack job and call it SOLDIER Job

Viper doesn't play anything like Zidane, that would have been Rogue before it changed to Ninja (Honestly I wish Rogue and Ninja were split apart really liked that class ;~; )

[EdwinLi]

Viper doesn't play anything like Zidane, that would have been Rogue before it changed to Ninja (Honestly I wish Rogue and Ninja were split apart really liked that class ;~; )

You're think about his RPG turn base combat game play which was a normal Rogue class/job.

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

They obviously modified certain aspects since they cannot use daggers and to avoid having the battle stance looking too much like Rogue/Ninja battle stance.

[KazumaFaemura]

You're think about his RPG turn base combat game play which was a normal Rogue class/job.

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

They obviously modified certain aspects since they cannot use daggers and to avoid having the battle stance looking too much like Rogue/Ninja battle stance.

Oh right I completely forgot about Dissidia's existence. That's fair enough then.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

They've never stated Zidane as an inspiration, they added a double sword job because that's the most requested weapon they've been asked for, they even name dropped Sword Art Online as the inspiration for most of the abilities/moves, which checks out, Viper is basically the anime swordsman class.

This is in contrast with Gunbreaker, which was very clearly based on Squall, borrowing the moves and stances from both his original and Dissidia appearances (and borrowing a little from Seifer) whereas Viper has no such thing from Zidane, with no moves or similar stances being borrowed. The only thing that suggests inspiration from Zidane is the Twinblade.

[Nathavin]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much worse now and here's why.

The short but easily reapply-able 20s debuff (With a 40s max) gave vipers something to optimize, as the other two buffs require almost no thought other than when coming out of your 2/6/8/10 min window.
Before going into your reawakening its its fun to plan how you're going to ensure you go in with atleast 22+seconds of this debuff. Also if you set it up correctly its very easy to just apply a single gcd of gnash inbetween the two reawakens should you have miscalculated the timer! Beyond this I have to wonder if anyone who is saying these changes are good ever played reaper, as reaper's triple enshroud was almost always not worth the effort and very clunky.

Dealing with EX1 Vali and optimizing when the boss disengages you for the application of gnash on the needles (first hit of 3 hit combo on needle one, then use dreadwinder on needle two) then spacing out snaps to allow the timing of the first returning gcd on vali to be gnash was a ton of fun to optimize, and even when it was difficult to do, it was not a big deal as you still had 16-8 seconds till reawaken! Enough time to apply the debuff twice!

Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the one thing other than uptime and positional you could optimize.
Gnash feels truly like a better version of reapers death's design. It almost makes me wish they would make it a alternate combo for RPR rather than being a single button.

For all intents and purposes, Viper plays very similarly. But the few plates that you had to spin have fallen and all you have now is uptime, and positionals.
If you're saying its better I doubt you've ever tried to optimize it in any content whatsoever, let alone EX+ content.

TL;DR it's the worse and honestly more boring, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is good.

[Leonus]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much worse now and here's why.

The short but easily reapply-able 20s debuff (With a 40s max) gave vipers something to optimize, as the other two buffs require almost no thought other than when coming out of your 2/6/8/10 min window.
Before going into your reawakening its its fun to plan how you're going to ensure you go in with atleast 22+seconds of this debuff. Also if you set it up correctly its very easy to just apply a single gcd of gnash inbetween the two reawakens should you have miscalculated the timer! Beyond this I have to wonder if anyone who is saying these changes are good ever played reaper, as reaper's triple enshroud was almost always not worth the effort and very clunky.

Dealing with EX1 Vali and optimizing when the boss disengages you for the application of gnash on the needles (first hit of 3 hit combo on needle one, then use dreadwinder on needle two) then spacing out snaps to allow the timing of the first returning gcd on vali to be gnash was a ton of fun to optimize, and even when it was difficult to do, it was not a big deal as you still had 16-8 seconds till reawaken! Enough time to apply the debuff twice!

Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the one thing other than uptime and positional you could optimize.
Gnash feels truly like a better version of reapers death's design. It almost makes me wish they would make it a alternate combo for RPR rather than being a single button.

For all intents and purposes, Viper plays very similarly. But the few plates that you had to spin have fallen and all you have now is uptime, and positionals.
If you're saying its better I doubt you've ever tried to optimize it in any content whatsoever, let alone EX+ content.

TL;DR it's the worse and honestly more boring, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is good.

i try to optimize but at the same time, the change doesn't bother me because you can still optimize… just not around NG. Pretending you still cant optimize is disingenuous. People mostly want something to separate themselves from the players they consider mediocre/average/below average and challenge themseleves (even jf artificially). Thats the true basis of the anger and angst.

[Skyclaw726]

I can't say I noticed a difference. I don't do the harder stuff so maybe that's why I didn't notice.

[PeppermintBrown]

No, it wasn't. You just sucked at the job. People who enjoyed how it was shouldn't suffer a boring job due to your incompetence.

Don't worry. In a little over a month it will have been 'this' way longer than it was the 'old' way and then the people who like it as it is now will have had more time with their version and you will be the ones asking for changes to a job other people enjoy and the cycle will continue.