Viper Changes are good, actually

[Atmaweapon510]

I actually think that this change was for the best in the long term because it's one of those things makes VPR awkward to play as you level or downsync because the ratio of Dread Fangs to Steel Fangs only starts evening out once it gets access to Reawakening and Uncoiled Fangs. From here, they're free to add in even more branching/alternate combo sequences without disrupting the flow of VPR's basic combo.

Of course, any goodwill towards the "wait till we get to the next expansion to flesh things out" excuse kind of died with SAM and Kaiten and no healer rework in sight.

[EdwinLi]

I actually think that this change was for the best in the long term because it's one of those things makes VPR awkward to play as you level or downsync because the ratio of Dread Fangs to Steel Fangs only starts evening out once it gets access to Reawakening and Uncoiled Fangs. From here, they're free to add in even more branching/alternate combo sequences without disrupting the flow of VPR's basic combo.

Of course, any goodwill towards the "wait till we get to the next expansion to flesh things out" excuse kind of died with SAM and Kaiten and no healer rework in sight.

I honestly felt Viper's design choice since this expansion release been more focus on maybe being a bit too simple by design.

I was expecting a bit different when they talked about Viper's design is partly about switching "stances" in their combat.

Don't know what it is but it was not giving me the "feeling" people get when they are playing a job they naturally like playing.

In my opinion, I think they could have designed the job more towards emphasis on the whole Switch stance concept they had going instead of how they just treat it currently being a normal combo for dual sword form and burst combo for Twinblade form then Trance Mode for BIG burst.

Either way, I'm probably defaulting back to my old Main Job again being Machinists since current expansion jobs do not interests me gameplay wise after trying them out.

[mallleable]

I honestly don't know how to feel about the change. It kinda feels the same, but it also feels super auto piloty now.

[OliverQ]

I honestly don't know how to feel about the change. It kinda feels the same, but it also feels super auto piloty now.

This is a great way to describe it. I was having trouble explaining what feels different, and auto-pilot is a good term. It feels like it plays itself now.

[OliverQ]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:

Viper is literally much better now actually and here's why.
The low timer (20s) on noxious gash caused many vipers to fall into the bad habit of just rotating dread fangs combo to keep the debuff up instead of doing the better Steel Fangs starter for higher potency. When you go into reawakening, you also can't reapply noxious gash during it either meaning you had to play around making sure the debuff was up before you reawakened, making double reawakenings very annoying and the theoretical triple reawakening a near impossibility.
The other issue was when you needed to peel off a boss to deal with adds or another target etc. you HAD to just start a new combo to apply noxious gash or use dreadwinder on it. It felt very VERY bad for a job whose primary draw was getting into a constant flowing rhythm. The INTENT behind the debuff was it would fit into that constant flow but due to how the nature of it being a debuff works, it ended up feeling like hot ass (plus the duration sucked)
Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the biggest complaint because it's an annoyance (note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.
For all intents and purposes, Viper plays nearly the exact same, I'd say it plays even better without having to worry about the debuff falling off, and with the buff timers now at 60 seconds, you can maintain your flow past some lengthy phase transitions.
If you're crying about it you never played viper outside of leveling it 80-100 and brainlessly spamming roulettes.
Does the job feel like ass in low level content? Fuck yeah it does, but so does everything else and that's a fundamental issue with the game that's not gonna be solved anytime soon. Beg Yoshi P to let us keep all our skills when synced down

TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad. The job was not made easier, just less annoying, it was never hard, it was always easy.

Gonna disagree. Not that Noxious Gnash was complicated, but it added a tiny bit of complexity to an otherwise simple job by requiring you to time double NGs before Double reawakens so the buff doesn't fall off mid burst. Now Viper is quite literally press the shiny buttons and nothing else. Your main combo stays lit up the entire fight now, it doesn't even require picking which button to start the combo on. All jobs are being dumbed down like crazy, but VPR is now the Summoner of melee.

This isn't a good sign for their 8.0 job redesigns.

[LunaCelestiaXIV]

TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad. The job was not made easier, just less annoying, it was never hard, it was always easy.

Call me elitist, but we're supposed to listen to what you have to say?

You, who has 0 clears on Viper on EX (actually no EX clears at all) are supposed to tell us --- players that at least cleared EX with Viper --- that the changes are good and if not, we have not "played the job seriously"?

Utterly laughable.

[Lorika]

Call me elitist, but we're supposed to listen to what you have to say?

You, who has 0 clears on Viper on EX (actually no EX clears at all) are supposed to tell us --- players that at least cleared EX with Viper --- that the changes are good and if not, we have not "played the job seriously"?

Utterly laughable.

Oh yeah EX need you to be very skilled *look at Bismarck*.... Yeah very very skilled *cough*
Yeah, what i just did is unfair but, seriously, not all the EX are hard, and, most of them don't ask perfect individual play, but a good party with people knowing what they are doing.

So, what is utterly laughable, is your answer and the way you assess someone skill.
There is a lot of very good player that don't or rarelly do EX because they don't want or, are not interested.
So your comment is completly out of the line and has nothing to do here

If you want to play at "who have the biggest", the official forum for a certain number one MMO is made for you.

[LunaCelestiaXIV]

Oh yeah EX need you to be very skilled *look at Bismarck*.... Yeah very very skilled *cough*
Yeah, what i just did is unfair but, seriously, not all the EX are hard, and, most of them don't ask perfect individual play, but a good party with people knowing what they are doing.

So, what is utterly laughable, is your answer and the way you assess someone skill.
There is a lot of very good player that don't or rarelly do EX because they don't want or, are not interested.
So your comment is completly out of the line and has nothing to do here

If you want to play at "who have the biggest", the official forum for a certain number one MMO is made for you.

You clearly have 0 context comprehension skills if this is your response to my post.

Again, another utterly laughable response.

[Tehmon]

Eh, works for me either way. Keeping up DoTs, buffs and debuffs is one of the lamest parts of any kit for me (I say this as a casual obviously), but at least Viper's was weaved nicely into his regular 1-2-3 combos unlike Reaper's nasty, clunky Shadow of Death. I understand that there's ton of '' skill expression '' involved with managing debuffs and DoTs even in a simple kit, but I don't need it for Viper (or any class for that matter).

I am though a bit weirded out by the lack of poison-theming now for a job that calls itself the Viper and even makes a reference to snake fangs in it's job icon. All snakes aren't venomous, but vipers are. So what gives? Where is the damn poison?

[EdwinLi]

Eh, works for me either way. Keeping up DoTs, buffs and debuffs is one of the lamest parts of any kit for me (I say this as a casual obviously), but at least Viper's was weaved nicely into his regular 1-2-3 combos unlike Reaper's nasty, clunky Shadow of Death. I understand that there's ton of '' skill expression '' involved with managing debuffs and DoTs even in a simple kit, but I don't need it for Viper (or any class for that matter).

I am though a bit weirded out by the lack of poison-theming now for a job that calls itself the Viper and even makes a reference to snake fangs in it's job icon. All snakes aren't venomous, but vipers are. So what gives? Where is the damn poison?

The Job is mostly just Zidane gameplay style but they name it Viper seem to be something they chosen to reflect the whole twin sword being snake fangs.

I do not think they really mean it to be a "Viper" but just to give it a name that can provide some lore behind the Job for FF14 world that fights like Zidane since there is no real name for certain FF Character Specific jobs in their other FF games or they were just very modified versions of a existing FF game job.

I will not be surprised at this point if they introduce another Character based FF job like Zack job and call it SOLDIER Job