Please revert the Viper changes immediately and stop changing it.

[ZephyrMenodora]

"You" may get what you want, which is a class fantasy.

Honestly to me it killed the class fantasy. It wasn't just a dual wielder, it had a specific viper/snake theme. The changes really gutted a big part of it for me.

[angienessyo]

I mean, I've played the job since early access and it still feels pretty similar to me. I'm not top VPR main in the world or anything, but I like to think I understand the job okay. The debuff was rarely something I thought about because I had the muscle memory to just naturally keep it up. I get being disappointed it's gone, but there's some really dramatic opinions about it on the forums. I've mained NIN since Stormblood and this change is honestly nothing compared to all that was lost or changed on NIN in that time period haha You either like the job and stick with it despite what gets changed, or move onto something else. Was there 10 threads on the forum when we lost shadowfang, shadewalker, smokescreen, trick attack got completely changed, mug got completely changed, trick got renamed, mug got renamed, Blood for Blood, Mutilate, Internal Release, Sneak Attack, Duality, Jugulate, Huton became a trait. You guys remember when we used to do shuriken instead of raiton because raiton would have clipping so it was just more optimal to use shuriken? Remember when trick attack used to fail if you didn't get your rear positional? Seiryu EX was fun when he'd constantly turn every 2 seconds and we didn't have 2 stacks of TN back then.

Sometimes your job changes and you just have to roll with the punches. I know I did. The only reason I swapped from NIN to VPR was my static had a NIN already.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Sometimes your job changes and you just have to roll with the punches.

As someone whose main DPS was Summoner since ARR, and have lost things like ground-targeted dots, Summons that were actually "alive" and could tank or take damage, and the complete change in gameplay most expansions to pretty much stagnation in EW to DT - I get it.

I just haven't experienced falling in love with a class' theme and then having part of that theme just removed within one month. It's like they handed me a piece of candy, then swiped it away as I unwrapped it.

[LynxDubh]

Sometimes your job changes and you just have to roll with the punches. I know I did. The only reason I swapped from NIN to VPR was my static had a NIN already.

At some point you have to push back against the punches though. I’m sick of the jobs I enjoy getting gutted. SB AST, SB SCH, SB/ShB SMN, EW BLM, HW and onward DRK, and now VPR shortly after I had just gotten into it. If DNC were not *serviceable* currently, and RDM still fun to learn, I might have flat out dropped this expac.

[HEKnTEKn]

A lot of people have been saying this doesn't really change anything... but please consider!

It was imperative to re-up NG just before beginning re-awakening burst, and also to save dual-blade combo near burst phases to safely re-apply GN for the following coils near the end of buff phase. Removing the debuff means you no longer have to prep or save resources before your burst phase, which was akin to saving job gauge on SAM or holding wyrmwind thrust when buffs were coming back up.

Having a button to press and knowing you need to save it is extra job complexity. Needing to press a button before a critical timing in rotation is extra job complexity, and the removal of noxious gnash single handedly removes it all.

Bring it back! This is worse than losing Kaiten was!

[FuwafuwaMii]

Have they ever reverted a change?

[LynxDubh]

Have they ever reverted a change?

The removal of Energy Drain at the beginning of ShB, they reverted that.

[LisseyCrowe]

I'm confused when people claim "Job plays the same, nothing's changed".

Okay? So we should change the job more right? Remove more mechanics? Because these changes were made to make the job less demanding, but apparently it's just the same. Oh, you simply mean that people should be happy that the changes are invisible? But then you're not really against bringing back the debuff, right? So why are you exclusively dismissing one side?

I disagree with them quite a bit, but at least AddictedToWitches were very honest about their thoughts and defended them. Just say you don't want to track a debuff. Say it loud and clear. Say it loud enough that, should SE hear, they remove all of them (and future ones as well). At least that means something.

[Stanelis]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much better now actually and here's why.
The low timer (20s) on noxious gash caused many vipers to fall into the bad habit of just rotating dread fangs combo to keep the debuff up instead of doing the better Steel Fangs starter for higher potency. When you go into reawakening, you also can't reapply noxious gash during it either meaning you had to play around making sure the debuff was up before you reawakened, making double reawakenings very annoying and the theoretical triple reawakening a near impossibility.
The other issue was when you needed to peel off a boss to deal with adds or another target etc. you HAD to just start a new combo to apply noxious gash or use dreadwinder on it. It felt very VERY bad for a job whose primary draw was getting into a constant flowing rhythm. The INTENT behind the debuff was it would fit into that constant flow but due to how the nature of it being a debuff works, it ended up feeling like hot ass (plus the duration sucked)
Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the biggest complaint because it's an annoyance (note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.
For all intents and purposes, Viper plays nearly the exact same, I'd say it plays even better without having to worry about the debuff falling off, and with the buff timers now at 60 seconds, you can maintain your flow past some lengthy phase transitions.
If you're crying about it you never played viper outside of leveling it 80-100 and brainlessly spamming roulettes.
Does the job feel like ass in low level content? Fuck yeah it does, but so does everything else and that's a fundamental issue with the game that's not gonna be solved anytime soon.
TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad

I haven't tried the new viper but I was leveling it before the change, and the viper is exceptionnaly underwhelming to play during leveling even compared to other jobs. Even summoner is more interesting during leveling....

[Dexion]

Y'all really are blowing this out of proportion goodness. The job is /FAR/ from dead.