Please revert the Viper changes immediately and stop changing it.

[Underscore]

It was already easy to play, there's no need to make it even more braindead. The job is worse now and nobody wanted this. They couldn't even wait one raid tier to let people get a feel for it in savage content. Even the names of the actions got changed for no reason. Having to partially re-learn the job on the day the raids release is pretty annoying too. They tried this before in the leadup to 7.01, but luckily we managed to stop them since they announced their plans in advance. It feels like they dropped these changes by surprise on purpose so they couldn't get feedback beforehand.

I don't know who on the job design team can't resist the urge to change and nerf the jobs, but please;

VIPER WAS PERFECT IN 7.0 - PLEASE PUT IT BACK AND THEN SIMPLY LEAVE IT ALONE. THIS ISN'T FUNNY.


It's making me anxious knowing my main job is constantly on the chopping block and could be ruined at any time. I already lost Dragoon in 7.0, I don't want to switch jobs again.
I just want to enjoy Viper with a sense of security, knowing it'll be safe until next expansion. Or next major patch at the very least.

[AddictedToWitches]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much better now actually and here's why.
The low timer (20s) on noxious gash caused many vipers to fall into the bad habit of just rotating dread fangs combo to keep the debuff up instead of doing the better Steel Fangs starter for higher potency. When you go into reawakening, you also can't reapply noxious gash during it either meaning you had to play around making sure the debuff was up before you reawakened, making double reawakenings very annoying and the theoretical triple reawakening a near impossibility.
The other issue was when you needed to peel off a boss to deal with adds or another target etc. you HAD to just start a new combo to apply noxious gash or use dreadwinder on it. It felt very VERY bad for a job whose primary draw was getting into a constant flowing rhythm. The INTENT behind the debuff was it would fit into that constant flow but due to how the nature of it being a debuff works, it ended up feeling like hot ass (plus the duration sucked)
Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the biggest complaint because it's an annoyance (note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.
For all intents and purposes, Viper plays nearly the exact same, I'd say it plays even better without having to worry about the debuff falling off, and with the buff timers now at 60 seconds, you can maintain your flow past some lengthy phase transitions.
If you're crying about it you never played viper outside of leveling it 80-100 and brainlessly spamming roulettes.
Does the job feel like ass in low level content? Fuck yeah it does, but so does everything else and that's a fundamental issue with the game that's not gonna be solved anytime soon.
TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad

[ZephyrMenodora]

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much better now actually and here's why.
The low timer (20s) on noxious gash caused many vipers to fall into the bad habit of just rotating dread fangs combo to keep the debuff up instead of doing the better Steel Fangs starter for higher potency. When you go into reawakening, you also can't reapply noxious gash during it either meaning you had to play around making sure the debuff was up before you reawakened, making double reawakenings very annoying and the theoretical triple reawakening a near impossibility.
The other issue was when you needed to peel off a boss to deal with adds or another target etc. you HAD to just start a new combo to apply noxious gash or use dreadwinder on it. It felt very VERY bad for a job whose primary draw was getting into a constant flowing rhythm. The INTENT behind the debuff was it would fit into that constant flow but due to how the nature of it being a debuff works, it ended up feeling like hot ass (plus the duration sucked)
Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the biggest complaint because it's an annoyance (note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.
For all intents and purposes, Viper plays nearly the exact same, I'd say it plays even better without having to worry about the debuff falling off, and with the buff timers now at 60 seconds, you can maintain your flow past some lengthy phase transitions.
If you're crying about it you never played viper outside of leveling it 80-100 and brainlessly spamming roulettes.
Does the job feel like ass in low level content? Fuck yeah it does, but so does everything else and that's a fundamental issue with the game that's not gonna be solved anytime soon.
TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad

If viper was "always an easy job" - why remove some of the few decisions people can make with it? Wow - they actually needed to plan having the debuff up for Awakening and make simple decisions about starting with Dreadfang or not.

"Bad Habit" players should be penalized with slightly lower potency. Same for people who won't move for positions and they kept them.

Noxious Gash also themacticaly was my favorite part of the job fantasy. It feels so dead now without the constant venom debuffs. Maybe not a lot of people cared about that, but it sure mattered to me.

[ovIm]

TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad

I'm going to be frank here and say - anyone who has that opinion seriously has never played Viper.
1. it is not the exact same. You now don't have to track Noxious Gnash, which removes a noticeable part of what made the Viper Rotation interesting. Instead of using both Dreadwinder Cooldown and Noxious Gnash timing as a measurement of when to use Dread Fangs over Steel Fangs, you now just alternate the two.
2. if Viper still played the same, people would not complain. But the rotation of the filler GCDs is now much more static than before, devoid of any decision making. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air.

[CaptainLagbeard]

As people keep repeatedly telling Healers... If you don't like it, go play something else.

[Underscore]

As people keep repeatedly telling Healers... If you don't like it, go play something else.

Yeah just abandon your main job and play something different that you don't enjoy as much. Then when that gets ruined next patch, keep switching until there are no fun jobs left. Thank you for your insight, truly.

[Voidmage]

If anyone is interested, at least the last three pages on the japanese forum also voice dissapointment in the majority.
I only skimmed over it though so you can look here for yourself if you want.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...3%83%AC/page50

I haven't tried it yet after the changes but I get the dissapointment over it.
They didn't change the positionals because of feedback so I would say keep the feedback going (even though I wonder why you don't post these threads in the dps forum, wouldn't that be better to not get buried by other threads?).

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

The job barely lasted a single month before it got its single upkeep mechanic removed, that's got to be a new record. Makes me wonder how the fuck the Reaper one survived since upkeep mechanics are apparently too difficult and stressful to maintain for the average player.

I'm impressed at how many upkeep mechanics have been gutted, are they really that hard for players to work with?

[OdinelStarrei]

The job barely lasted a single month before it got its single upkeep mechanic removed, that's got to be a new record. Makes me wonder how the fuck the Reaper one survived since upkeep mechanics are apparently too difficult and stressful to maintain for the average player.

I'm impressed at how many upkeep mechanics have been gutted, are they really that hard for players to work with?

If I had to guess...Shadow of Death is still in the game because it's the only GCD you can use while Enshrouded that does not consume gauge and push you further to being forced to Communio. This is important, it acts as filler GCDs while Enshroud's timer ticks down after the first usage. With this, you can get 2 Communios, Plentiful Harvest and the Perfectio in Arcane Circle. Considering Arcane Circle is one of the first of the buffs to go out in a team, after the 1st GCD, fitting those highest damage hits in Arcane Circle is the hardest, and everything else typically works out from there.

If Death's Design as a debuff was removed, they'd have to also completely remove or nerf Enshroud's cooldown down to less than 10 seconds, or double Enshroud windows, one of the things I appreciate the most on RPR in terms of "game feel", would be impossible.

That's assuming it's even intentional design in the first place...and this isn't even getting into the gauge build up from enemies that die while the debuff is inflicted in something like a dungeon. In order to compensate, you'd need higher potencies on AoE attacks, but that's just boring. Again, they'd be removing a mechanic and not adding/replacing anything in that empty design space.

EDIT: It also feels a bit anti-thematic to Reaper. If I don't gain anything when enemies die, what am I Reaping, exactly?

[WantlessYoYo]

(note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.

Why do people forget DD is actually useful in dungeons for pretty much free gauge and in fights with (or rather if they ever do, lol) multiple adds would be a gain on their gauge, compared to now Viper who it's true just didn't win anything from applying the debuff other than, dmg