SE's treatment of MCH is a joke

[Themarvin]

How about giving it a chance and changes also will reveal those who actually would to play as one and who, whom is just another run along because it's best kind of speech.

[Hanzz96]

How about giving it a chance and changes also will reveal those who actually would to play as one and who, whom is just another run along because it's best kind of speech.

Every time I re read this it made less sense

[Mukouda]

Once again SE has no idea what they want from MCH. And i've always felt compelled to play MCH because of the gun and the worst part is that the job is holding hostage another class from using a gun. Just add a dual wielding gunslinger since we are in america now so i can abandon this awful rusty ship called MCH.

[Stigs]

I agree that the 1% thing is a pretty lame reason to bring a role. I would be totally fine with support jobs having actual meaningful support again. I'm not sure how you'd do it, what with TP ripped out of the game and MP management being almost nonexistent. But it'd be nice to see.

The only thing I'm arguing against is this idea that jobs/roles should be balanced around optimization. Disregarding the fact that the only reason people are really even aware of that or care is because the broad majority of the playerbase is breaking ToS; as long as jobs have any differences at all there will always always always be winners and losers. Looking at the hidden forbidden website, an average M1S has 134k dps across the entire raid right now. 1% of 134k is 1.3k. The gap in rdps between a ranged and the jobs on top of the charts is ~2k last I checked. Meaning the loss in contribution from bringing a ranged could be about ~700 rdps, taking for granted that everyone is playing just as well as each other. That is a less than 1% difference in total dps contribution.

Again, I'm not arguing that the 1% role bonus is fun or good or interesting. What I'm saying is, that if the standard is "we don't bring (role) anymore because it's suboptimal by less than 1% when compared to not bringing it at all on the raid tier with the most lenient DPS checks in the history of the game, therefore we must flatten the jobs even further", there is no winning. The problem isn't the jobs, it's that the playerbase is so fixated on the scoreboard it's the only part of the game that matters to them anymore.

[RagiForzando]

I don't think that our current situation will ever work. This is something closer to a player psychology thing. If the perception exists and it feels bad, it will not be 'fixed' until something is changed. That's sadly just how player psychology is. The 1% is a bandaid in place which already doesn't appear to be sufficient anymore. It FEELS bad to be a 1% statstick, and it feels WORSE when that 1% isn't even better than bringing a different role to begin with. Yes ignorance is bliss but once you know it is the case and it has been the case for a very long time it draws some things into question wouldn't you say? It realistically doesn't matter (yet, we could get another abyssos) but if it feels like shit it feels like shit. No changing that.

To add, when it comes to DPS jobs at least, it usually is the same few jobs being the 'losers' of the stick. This usually being the entire phys ranged role when compared to all other roles, MCH within the role itself and NIN in the melee role. Yes some jobs will be weaker, but when it happens to the same jobs again and again there is a bigger issue. In MOST other MMOs there are larger shifts in their 'META', which causes more people to experience the short end of the stick, but for less time (ideally). Also not an ideal scenario, but at least things would change from time to time instead of this rigid structure we are in now. Meanwhile the entire ranged role has been in limbo for 2 expansions already. This isn't really a matter of wanting to be the best, it's more of at least bringing SOMETHING that matters, and when the band-aid fix isn't even that anymore I don't know what will be without a full rework of the role.

[AddictedToWitches]

MCH has been fucked ever since they decided the heat blast spam was a good and fun idea

[Absurdity]

We had this in Heavensward and Stormblood. It was Hypercharge and it turned the rook turret autos into Trick Attack. Not sure if it was 5% though.

I can't remember the exact percentage but it was half of what Trick did at the time with double the duration.

Again, I'm not arguing that the 1% role bonus is fun or good or interesting. What I'm saying is, that if the standard is "we don't bring (role) anymore because it's suboptimal by less than 1% when compared to not bringing it at all on the raid tier with the most lenient DPS checks in the history of the game, therefore we must flatten the jobs even further", there is no winning. The problem isn't the jobs, it's that the playerbase is so fixated on the scoreboard it's the only part of the game that matters to them anymore.

And I'd argue that IS a problem with the jobs, or rather their job-design philosophy in general, because everything that wasn't just % more DPS has been systematically pruned out of the game or out of relevance. You've said it yourself, TP and MP management are either completely or close to nonexistent. Aggro management is nonexistent, buff management is just doing your opener and then pressing it on cooldown.
When the only relevant metric left in the game is "provides X amount of damage" then that's all you're going to look at.

And when they try to break that mold with the currently available options we end up with completely overtuned abilities like Shake It Off.

[Hanzz96]

MCH has been fucked ever since they decided the heat blast spam was a good and fun idea

Idk I like heat blast but ahh yeah this job makes me sad

[Hanzz96]

This made even worse because fights like M1s can be kinda annoying and punishing on MCH because the stuns and knock backs generally happen at moments when tools are coming off cooldown and if you're not careful you can drift AA and CS into Narnia. There's micromanagement that isn't reflective of hitting like a wet paper bag

[Volgia]

So I was doing M3S yesterday on MCH, and we kept wiping to .5% or .3% when we had a couple of deaths, but the party composition was pretty bad, MCH/RDM/VPR/SAM with DRK/PLD/WHM/SGE, so we lacked a LOT of damage. I am not the best person playing MCH, but it really made me realize that I had to play better and better while I was doing it, all to be outdpsed by someone playing barely decent as a PCT to outdps me by 3k.

I kept thinking , if I were a DNC boosting the SAM we would have just straight up cleared. It made me pretty sad since learning DNC is so much easier than MCH.