Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

Noxious Gash wasn't exactly good but our replacement they came up with in 4 seconds is substantially worse. One of the core rotational decisions you were always making is ensuring Dreadwinder doesn't overcap Noxious by managing when to Steel Fangs and when to Dread Fangs, that is now removed with literally no replacement and "Vicewinder" can be mindlessly mashed whenever you feel like it since the CD can't even drift. New combo buffs are also overly generous which eliminates interactions with Reawaken. The only justification for having like 8 buttons total was all the interactions between them but now? Now it's just melee Summoner with double weaves.

[zaya_moya]

yes , VPR changes are trash and must be reverted!

[Leonus]

Personally, I’m okay with the changes. I didn’t have an issue with the last iteration either.

I have also also remember that I’m not a particularly whiney individual who’s caught up in the “all about what I like” and “it’s about me” mindset.

[Cynric]

It was more fun to keep up the timer than to alternate the starters, I'd rather have seen Noxious Gnash upgraded to 60s over it being completely removed. Vicewinder is a terrible name and it feels empty to press now, before when it gave the debuff it was reasonable that it had no OGCD's after it, now it just kind of feels like its just there. I guess damage is damage but it was fun when it had a meaning towards optimizing debuff time, now it's kind of just another cooldown and doesn't even have double weaves or anything.

I'm going to play this iteration but I'd rather see the change to Noxious Gnash reverted and Dread debuff restored, and if they really want to make it easier then just increase the debuff time.

[Komarimono]

Well, we know nothing will get reverted, so time to just adapt.

All this does, is make it that we can ignore re-applying before starting a combo string.

Previously would be like, ok.... few seconds left, just tap Dread Fangs button, apply debuff, go into combo wanted, then just finish the 123 combo to get Death Rattle.

Now it's just go into combo without worrying about debuff timer. Wasn't any skill involved really, and on some bosses if didn't apply debuff before running out of mechanics, you had to re-apply it anyway. It was not a core feature of the Job imho. Just something we pressed as needed, they simply removed needing to press it to do our main Job of combo dancing.

[ovIm]

Well, we know nothing will get reverted, so time to just adapt.

All this does, is make it that we can ignore re-applying before starting a combo string.

Previously would be like, ok.... few seconds left, just tap Dread Fangs button, apply debuff, go into combo wanted, then just finish the 123 combo to get Death Rattle.

Now it's just go into combo without worrying about debuff timer. Wasn't any skill involved really, and on some bosses if didn't apply debuff before running out of mechanics, you had to re-apply it anyway. It was not a core feature of the Job imho. Just something we pressed as needed, they simply removed needing to press it to do our main Job of combo dancing.

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

[EiraWoqiso]

Going to preface my thoughts on the fact that I only have VPR at 90, so I don't have firsthand experience at 100. My understanding from a few people that I know who main viper is that the only time the 20s timer is much of a concern was if you planned on doing 2 Reawakenings in a row (with more lenience) or 3 in a row (very tight lenience); but that ultimately the way the class pilots itself you almost never have to actually think about the timing of it. That seemed pretty in line with my understanding of the job at 90, maybe with the exception of the boss going invulnerable right before you would use Reawakening?

[Leonus]

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

It wasn’t major enough to be anything I would consider close to a “breathe of fresh air”. It was just something else to track.

Which is fine, some people enjoyed it. I was numb to it. It didn’t add anything for me when it came to enjoyment of the class. It was pretty empty if I’m being honest.

To some others, it appeared to be some top level gameplay or something.

[zaya_moya]

it was actually deep when you try to max your DPS, there are a lot of nuances. now the job is absolutely empty and boring.

[Leonus]

it was actually deep when you try to max your DPS, there are a lot of nuances. now the job is absolutely empty and boring.

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.