Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[Shenlao]

I don't have strong feelings on the viper changes in isolation but I do feel like in this circumstances the changes felt very kneejerk in a very bad way. There was no time given for people to settle into the job. The design from what I played of it in extremes felt cohesive and fine there was nothing broken about it that needed some immediate fix and change in my opinion. Having this kind of swift reaction when I feel there is no way the devs actually had enough time to gather a wide range of relevant data to inform a change makes me worried for the general direction of job design.
It additionally looks bad when you've lived through jobs with actual issues sometimes even deeprooted design issues getting their problems ignored for years on years. Like for example what is up with MCH gameplay under ping not getting the reevaluation even after an extensive bug report in the forums on the network issues shining a highlight around what is causing that stuff? From that perspective this change feels like a bad prioritization of actual issues as well and felt like a waste of resources.

Not to get too cheeky but maybe if some of that viper attention and energy was actually focused on relevant things maybe monk and blm wouldn't have released in the laughable state they did before the patches fixed them up more. Like some of the oversights that have passed through this time I feel have been really bad on a level where you wonder is the job design team just stretched that thin?

[CKNovel]

What is confusing is that they mentionned going to remove positionals, community was against it so they removed something else...?
But at the same time RPR keeps Death Design. (Don't remove it).
It felt like they wanted take away the appetizers, didn't after we asked for it but took the chair.

I think the best solutions would've been to remove positionals potency and add a 20s dot you refresh up to 40/60s everytime you succeed at a positional.
This way, they lessen the impact and "pressure" on positionals by allowing to miss a few of them without dropping the dot.

They could even adjust the potency so that if you fail to refresh the dot you're heavily punished rather than today's almost unnoticeable gain on positionals.
Anyway, that's just an idea that would answer SQEX's concerns while keeping Noxious gash.

[Mondschnee]

I just wanted to add that two content creators have now spoken out about their disappointment in the viper changes.
And while CC's opinions shouldn't matter more than any other players, I hope these videos grab the dev's attention because they sum up what many people have been saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUs..._channel=Rinon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvk6...=BraxophoneXIV

[DemiBajamut]

I just wanted to add that two content creators have now spoken out about their disappointment in the viper changes.
And while CC's opinions shouldn't matter more than any other players, I hope these videos grab the dev's attention because they sum up what many people have been saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUs..._channel=Rinon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvk6...=BraxophoneXIV

I agree with these videos, replying here to show my support for them to bring back Noxious Gnash. Also... maybe bring back the names "Dreadwinder" and "Pit of Dread" too while you're at it? Vicewinder and Vicepit sounds really lame in comparison.

Also gonna copy and paste my reply I made in another post about Viper's changes:
I was really enjoying this job, it was simple and easy but there was still a little bit you could do to optimize, and now that's gone. I find it ridiculous the job has barely been out and they already did a rework like this. It feels insulting having my favorite job in Endwalker, Monk, have every step of it's 1-2-3 combo turn into leaden fist and now when I moved on and was enjoying Viper, they do this.

[sqoops]

I was expecting to hate the viper changes since I really liked managing Noxious Gnash, but honestly I think the job feels better to play and is just as fun without debuff management in most situations. My main gripe is that both the first and second hits of your filler combo just alternate between one and the other, which can feel a bit static. I think I'd like to see something like "Using Reaving Fangs gives two stacks of Honed Steel, consuming both stacks of Honed Steel gives one stack of Honed Reavers" just to spice up our filler rotation a bit (although I'm biased because I also really like monk and this would just make viper's filler more similar to monk's). I'd also like to see more ways to spend Rattling Coils added to give us more decisions to make about how to spend them, maybe something like a jumping attack with a long animation lock or a personal defensive that consumes a Rattling Coil but gives it back if you take damage, but that's probably something that would have to be added in a future expansion. Overall I still love viper, but I would like it even more if we had more meaningful decisions to make

[Wolf_Heartnet]

I was expecting to hate the viper changes since I really liked managing Noxious Gnash, but honestly I think the job feels better to play and is just as fun without debuff management in most situations. My main gripe is that both the first and second hits of your filler combo just alternate between one and the other, which can feel a bit static. I think I'd like to see something like "Using Reaving Fangs gives two stacks of Honed Steel, consuming both stacks of Honed Steel gives one stack of Honed Reavers" just to spice up our filler rotation a bit (although I'm biased because I also really like monk and this would just make viper's filler more similar to monk's). I'd also like to see more ways to spend Rattling Coils added to give us more decisions to make about how to spend them, maybe something like a jumping attack with a long animation lock or a personal defensive that consumes a Rattling Coil but gives it back if you take damage, but that's probably something that would have to be added in a future expansion. Overall I still love viper, but I would like it even more if we had more meaningful decisions to make

agreed. current iteration of Viper is a massive improvement over the old viper.

[CKNovel]

I got used to it but throwing Dreadwinder without thinking just feels weird.
You can just throw it on cooldown as you as your don't overcap the red diamond.

By the way, anyone else felt like Viper suffers a lot from the "animation lock" when throwing 2 oGCDs back to back? I'm especially thinking about the 2nd oGCD after the Dreadwinder GCDs, I spam them but they don't queue and don't go off. I'm used to play GNB so double weaving should be that big to me but someone, Viper throws me off.

[Ramiee]

I think the main appeal of viper remains, its the weakness dot didn't make it 20x more advanced then it is now.
The appeal of viper is that its brainless constant button pressing job, short recast time remains so the main reason a lot of people play it is still there. Its not a very skillful job nor a hard to learn job its just a constant button pressing job where you press similar buttons over and over, you're not really managing anything besides the coils which don't build very fast so you don't have to think too hard about them, It makes it a very easy melee job to prog with and to improve at encounters with because of coil being a strong range option. It really is a nothing burger change, Viper never needed to be changed thats reflected in this change since the only thing it really did is make you rotate the first button in the chain.

I do think its shitty that CBU3 did this though, because the change was obviously preplanned during 7.0, there isn't any placeholder like images for the new buffs and the yellow sword glow was added fast. CBU3 took 10 years to add a buff timer in your party window they do not do UI stuff like this fast. They disguised these changes they wanted to make (because they have zero confidence in their job design anymore) through pretending that these were changes we asked for, NO ONE asked for changes for Viper the job literally just came out, we didn't even get to try it in savage. If the dot was problematic those complaints would of come up during Savage/Ultimate not Extremes, thats what annoys me more then the change.
The fact CBU3 is obviously embarassed about releasing a job they deemed unfinished they tried to gaslight us into thinking we asked for it.

[Mecia]

I've also seen a few people mention that this makes Viper way less fun below level cap. Imagine picking this job up at level 80 today and having no mechanic except "Hit whatever button the Vipersight Gauge says to and lol don't overcap Dreadwinder I guess!" No more choosing when to use Dreadwinder -- sorry, VICEwinder -- for optimal Noxious Gash timing, no more nuanced and varied combo alternation, no more interesting multi-target or post-downtime optimization. The more I think about it, the more I think this change is utter garbage.

Revert it.

Hello 'tis i, someone who started leveling it after 7.05. Why is babbys first melee job allowed to deal SAM/BLM levels of damage?

Also, Viper has to be the worst playing job below 90. Its a lv50 job at its starting level.

[TheAmazing3]

Hello 'tis i, someone who started leveling it after 7.05. Why is babbys first melee job allowed to deal SAM/BLM levels of damage?

Also, Viper has to be the worst playing job below 90. Its a lv50 job at its starting level.

At least before the awful changes, you could play around with your combos since which combo starter you used was a choice, but now... yeah. I have said this before but it feels like a low level job to me even at max level now.

I hadn't looked at stats for savage but wow, viper is at the top when it comes to median performance. That's... pretty disgusting.