Advice on How to Give Advice

[CaptainLagbeard]

Unless they specifically ask or if repeated failures are actually being disruptive to the run, I usually don't explain things and let them figure it out on their own.

I generally assume the average player is at the very least capable of learning from mistakes.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I'd speak respectfully but only comment once, maybe twice at most. If someone is not receptive they aren't going to change their ways in the following 10 to 20 minutes.

Personally I am only willing to say things like "Tank stance?" "Dance Partner?" "Kardia?" "Fairy?" And then just go about my day if they still don't do anything. If it's a failed mechanic I may comment about that once but speak in generalities and not blame a specific person.

[Alyko]

If it's a failed mechanic I may comment about that once but speak in generalities and not blame a specific person.

This is the best way to handle those situations and life in general. Avoid making the other party lose face.

"If we stand next to the statues when there's a lightning beam, that should help the fight go smoother." rather than "WTF are you doing, when the burny melty beam locks on you RUN BEHIND A STATUE"

[Jeeqbit]

Firstly, I recommend just giving advice outside of dungeons, because then you have time to break the ice and "become friends" first.

This is integral, otherwise your advice will usually appear as if you rudely blurted it out in an angry, aggressive or insulting way, despite your best intentions.

If you wipe and you really do need to give advice to allow people to clear the duty, give it in a generic way:

• Don't aim the advice at any one person. For example "the mechanic is done like this" or "players need to do X to solve the mechanic". That way it doesn't seem like you are referring specifically to a person in your party, and therefore it cannot be interpreted as being rude.
• Do not order anyone or tell anyone what to do in the game. Phrase it as a suggestion like "in order to solve x mechanic, you can do x or y". I've always phrased my words this way, but SE's revised policy states it should be phrased as a suggestion as well.
• In most cases, no point bothering with class/job suggestions at all. People don't play well in lots of content. Maybe they are having a bad day, playing an alt class, have a disability, exhausted from work. Just leave them be. Playing well isn't required in a dungeon.
• If it's a high-end duty such as savage, sure, it's more serious content, people know what sort of content this is and it's fair to give advice (politely) or to consider kicking them or disbanding for class/job issues if they are contributing extraordinarily poor use of their kits that is interefering with the goals of the party. I don't mean making a small mistake but for example consistently using no mitigation for tankswaps, not using basic damage buffs that unlock most of their rotation and contribute 75% of their damage etc.

You can also of course give advice if someone asks a question in a duty, which is rare.

Now, you might think "but then how will they improve?". The answer to that is most people are in a Free Company, the Novice Network or have social connections. Alternatively, they watch content creators on YouTube and Twitch. They learn things about the game over time and improve this way.

So I just trust that if they have a question, they are probably asking it in FC chat to people they actually know and feel comfortable with.

the longstanding stigma around wanting to be a helpful person in the game and being met with (often hostile) opposition in response.

Ever since I joined the Novice Network, I stopped seeing that as an issue. I answer questions constantly in there. It may not be perfect, but it works despite all the people who claim otherwise.

I also have often been in FCs that get a lot of new players and just been the one constantly answering their questions, so that is another way to do it. Be in a new player-oriented FC that just sees new players up to max level, where maybe they'll leave and find a max level FC.

[1313]

You have to play stupid and "pretend" most other people are too. instead of saying "hey buddy you gotta stack with us, then move away, or we all die" you have to approach it like "i think we are supposed to stackthan spread maybe, idk. can we try that?" because people will attack you for anything else, and possibly get you suspended for trying to make it a better place. Yoshi himself even gave a similar example.

personally, i just wait til people eat dirt a couple times then i offer tips, and wait for a reply. if its really bad i explain explain how the mechs work and what to do, and who should do it. if they listen they listen, if they dont, idc. i can easily leave and make money for 30 mins and requeue.

[PaleYonder]

Lots of good suggestions here already.
I'm not a mentor, but I've successfully explained mechanics to new players, never had anyone snap at me, and I've also been the one that keeps dying at something and going "Help, what is even happening?" lol. So here are some combined thoughts from both sides:

Definitely stay friendly and positive; if you're going to type instead of just slapping on the dorito, rather stop where you're standing in a downtime and type a few filler words more to make the tone friendlier, and more general. Don't call out single players cause that can be stressful.
And use empathy:
Unlike what some people like to claim, usually a player knows themselves that things aren't working out and they're doing something wrong, that they're not understanding the mechanic, that they're not finding the right place to stand, etc. They just either don't grasp yet how to get it right or there's something out of their control (ping, disability, slower reflexes, sick day when they're unwell but just wanted to unwind and do some group content, attacking cat like in the example above lol - or whatever else). You can assume it's frustrating for them, too, and nobody wants to be the one that holds the party back. Depending on their previous experiences in 14 or other MMOs, they may already be bracing themselves for angry tirades.

So be nice, let them keep face, be positive about the whole thing, at repeated wipes frame it as a communal learning thing, or as said above, say something that reassures them that yes, this part is difficult, many people struggle with it.
Sometimes it's a simple part of the mechanic that they just didn't see or grasp, and when they do, it makes each subsequent run easier for them, but it's important that the learning experience is friendly.

And stick with the stuff that actually lets you all proceed; don't worry about rotations etc. If they're trying hard not to die but just don't understand what is happening when the boss is doing that one thing, rotations are going to be really far from their mind. And if they're doing fine in getting through the dungeon but are levelling a class or have simply not played the current one in a while and are giving it a spin in a dungeon, and maybe the update switched the button layout around on them, they'll take their own time learning and don't want to be yelled at for trying to practice.

A sidenote, if they're not responding (I've seen that mentioned in some similar threads), always consider they're not trying to be rude, but they may be on console, with either no keyboard at all except the horrific software one where you move the controller cursor to each letter, or it's lying further away and getting to it would mean disrupting what they're doing.

[kaynide]

I’m late to this, and didn’t read every response, so apologies if this is already said.

There is nothing against ToS in giving advice, provided it is done respectfully.

Aka “you’re doing it wrong”, “you have to do it this way” is bad, but

“Can we try…?”, “Maybe we should…?” is generally fine, although generally it’s better not to give unsolicited advice at all.


Of course, starting with a “is everyone ok?” Or “let’s give it our best shot” in auto translate usually prompts questions or maybe just an “I’m sorry”.

If you have been polite, and they are rude back, ignore it. If their rudeness causes multiple wipes, vote kick or you can drop out.

We have to keep in mind some people genuinely enjoy learning the mechanics on their own and don’t want it spoiled. They should be using trusts imo, but it is what it is.

[TaleraRistain]

If the party has been wiping a bit I'll generally say "If anyone needs tips, I'm happy to help. I'm okay if we keep going blind, too." More often than not, someone asks me about something they aren't sure of and I explain. Sometimes they say that they never understood X because no one would explain it. Sometimes I don't get any response but that's to be expected. I don't usually get people being salty because I only tell them if they say they want help for something. Asking first means the power is in their hands to say yes or no and when there's a choice they're actively able to participate in (as opposed to unsolicited advice) I've found people are a lot more receptive.

[CamuiKushi]

If the party has been wiping a bit I'll generally say "If anyone needs tips, I'm happy to help. I'm okay if we keep going blind, too." More often than not, someone asks me about something they aren't sure of and I explain. Sometimes they say that they never understood X because no one would explain it.

Honestly I've had people say "I've been playing this for years and I still don't understand it" and be relieved to finally get a mechanic. So yeah, putting the offer for help out there is always worthwhile.

[Volgia]

Ask them if they can read mechanics at all or if their dads would be proud of how they play, and then profusely apologize to the GM in the gaol.