#WukLamatMustDie

[lolnotacat]

I don't like character growth!!!

LOL. LMAO even. Stopped reading there. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Benjo]

[lolnotacat]

Sorry, I forgot differing opinions weren't allowed.

[Midare]

You know, I was going to respond to all that cope later since I'm occupied at the moment but... this should be good...

[Mnemy]

God I am sick of seeing these posts every where I go WEEKS after the expansion launch. Can't you people find a new topic? I think a healthy break from these forums and the subreddits is what I need, because I swear you all can't stop repeating the same things (outside of those with valid criticisms).

That is indeed what you have to do. You cant really blame people for being so agitated over the issue when the character topic in this thread is one of the biggest glaring issues in the quality of the story and tbh, there really isnt anything you can do about the threads because people will keep talking about it until there is a patch that will salvage this MSQ mess. If you dont agree with their assessment(and that is fine) and staying in the forums to read negative stuff about the topic is getting to you in a very bad way then yes you're correct; You need a break from the forums or from internet in general. Too much negative energy is bad for your mental health. Thats also the reason I literally deleted my tweeter acc at the start of the year. Too much negative shit in that hell hole.

[Mnemy]

I do honestly think you're correct. I recall being able to have proper discussions about this sort of thing. To be then labeled an idiot huffing copium is disheartening but welcome to the internet. I'm gonna take a long break from all of this, thank you for the reasonable response.

Yeah take a break for now. Dont visit the forums and reddit for now. I'm noticing that the thread topics about the MSQs are slowly pittering out anyway. For now "Out of sight, Out of mind". Try to visit again in few months maybe.

[Horack]

I'll give you the fact that she doesn't hold her own against Bakool Jaja in her first fight with him, however I can hardly say that her second fight with Bakool Jaja is a by the skin of her teeth victory. The bigger issue at hand here is how her apparent growth in this area is handled by us, the player. She doesn't manage to give a competent fight in the way that Estinien does with his sparring against Balool Jaja. It's only when we control her for the sake of the story that she manages to actually prove competency.

If you want to disregard the fact that we control her for said fight, you have to take into consideration that after "Wuk Lamat" defeats Bakool Jaja, he has a borderline nervous breakdown and runs away crying over the images of dead baby river in his head. The larger issue here is why didn't he have this same reaction when he got gut punched by Zoraal Ja? You can argue that it's more cinematic and you'd likely be correct. However, this doesn't really prove that Poochie has managed any measure of growth, because she's not fought anything else on her own ever since this fight with Bakool Jaja. Even if I were to yield that she was the absolute hero of this fight and that it was because entirely of her own work ethic, which we quite literally never see her do anything to improve her martial ability in any cutscene or anything adjacent, we do not see her win a fight on her own ever again.

Regarding the fact that she seems to learn to "scheme", Poochie's ability to have any measure of scheming simply does not come to pass. At no point in time does she ever, EVER, decide to go against what Sphene says. She, almost quite literally, is so enamored with Sphene from the very moment that Sphene says "I love my people" that she disregards every other single red flag that raises quite violently against the darkened purple sky. If there was ever any possible notion of suspicion that was meant to be shown by Poochie towards Sphene, it was impossible to see over Poochie kissing the ground Sphene walked on.

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[Horack]

At no point in time is Poochie attempting to learn about Alexandria and Sphene so far as to be able to launch a true counter attack against this potentially hostile empire. They popped into existence right outside of her doorstep and Poochie said "Oh hey there Speeeen. Show me how you make food and i'll give you tacos." The entirety of the time we spend in Solution Nine and the surrounding area is spent in awestruck reverence. There is not a single mention from Poochie as to how this all seems a bit suspicious. Poochie only mentions it's a bit odd when people die that others forget almost immediately. That is it. She had the perfect opportunity to say something was vile with this place when everyone literally forgot about Namikka the moment she breathed her last, but she decided to say "Oh hey. I want to keep learning about Speeen because she's such a good person." The fact that the woman who raised her from damn near birth died and was forgotten near immediately didn't seem to raise any suspicion until she walked away from the corpse and was it was out of view.

So far as Oblivion is concerned. They gave us no information outside of "We don't like Zoraal Ja. Also, here is a system of pipes to get to his domain." We don't use "their help" outside of getting to a glorified mail system that takes us to his front door. We don't use subterfuge to infiltrate his systems. We don't know any information from Oblivion outside of "zoraal ja not good." until Zoraal ja decides to move his army on to Turaal.

I have no idea where you got the notion that she talked her way out of the assassination intent of the Yok Huy. It is noted, from the very moment we make way onto the mountain, that they are no fans of Poochie, much less Galool Jaja as a whole. They are very open about this fact. Poochie would have been a proverbial lamb to the slaughter if she didn't have the quite literal walking nuke that was the WoL behind her. You say that she's learned that a ruler must take "unenviable actions" as a ruler at this point, yet what actions did she take? You can say that the fight with Zoraal Ja was as such but she wanted every single opportunity to try to talk him down until he, in a soul laden stupor, opted to fight with us because he needed to prove that he was the miracle child of a being that shouldn't have been able to birth anything.

Her big moment in the final trial does not show any growth at all. She quite literally claws her way through time and space to say "Speeeen! Listen to me!" and then desperately try to cling to getting Sphene to stop being a crazed murder robot. There is no learning there. Sphene is going to continue her path because she wants to save the Endless. Poochie wants to stop that because she thinks Speeen is a good person. There is no growth. She doesn't gain nuance here. She literally doesn't change her opinion of Speen from the literal very first moment that she sees her.

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[Horack]

We have a clumsy, arrogant and optimistic woman from day one and it never changes. She literally asks us to uproot our lives to live in Tural because she isn't confident enough to make the appropriate choices in being the Dawnservant, even if she later states that she won't ask us again. She doesn't recognize that her childhood best friend is going through having to quite literally delete his mother from existence, she simply smiles and says "Let's continue to get to speen"

I don't think you actually played through the MSQ and if you did, i'm not sure what you saw. Poochie remains the same from day 1 to day 30. There is no growth. There never was growth and for you to say otherwise is a lie.

[Antharaes]

The first major growth we get from her (outside of more minute details like the travel sickness) is her martial prowess over the course of her initial journey with the Warrior of Light. The very first time outside of 6.55 we see her fight is against Bakool Ja Ja, where she can't hold her own. Then she goes through two dungeons and even helps to take down a Tural Vidraal with us (which is less apparent if you don't play the duty support system), before being able to barely manage a victory against Bakool Ja Ja and eventually his minions once he kneels down.

The whole of the first half of the expansion is meant to be her growth though.

She also begins to learn the importance of not speaking so directly and learning a bit of scheming/conversational benefits as would befit a nation's ruler (as she screwed up the initial Pelupelu deal) which later translates into her interactions with Sphene, acting trustworthy whilst having a great deal of suspicion rather than immediately jumping the gun.

She generally begins to operate away from hit everything with a big stick to knowing thy enemy, which is why we spend time around Alexandria learning of their culture, it helps us get an edge later on when we meet Oblivion and can use their help to confront Zoraal Ja.

This does get twisted a little bit in an interesting fashion which I think bespeaks her greatest development. She managed to talk her way out of confrontation with the Yok Huy after learning how to connect with distinct cultures. But when she's finally taken on the mantle of ruler, she has to face the facts that some crimes are unforgivable and that a ruler must take necessary if unenviable action. She does not try to talk Zoraal Ja down, he has committed a great crime against her people, and her resolve comes down to setting aside her personal feelings for him to instead put him down.

Whilst she recognizes this potential in Sphene, her big moment in the final trial (and dialogue beforehand in Living Memory) shows that whilst she still wishes to at least speak with her, she already knows what must be done.

We have a clumsy, arrogant and optimistic woman get hit with lessons that humble her, strengthen her resolve, and level her characteristics out to more realistic expectations. I can't see how that isn't growth.

This is what you got out of it, good on you. Glad you got to enjoy it. Others, like me, just got more pissed at this aweful, boring, unbelievable stupid character. And mind you, that is my opinion. I dislike Wuk with a passion. I hope they salvage what they can with this disaster that is Dawntrail, if not, they will lose my coin.