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Thread: Stats Rework

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  1. #1
    Player
    LilimoLimomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,134
    Character
    Lilimo Limomo
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Personally, I don't find FF14's stats to be interesting; they don't offer any meaningful customization when there are mathematically correct answers. I think the game would be better off if the only "stats" we had were item level and job level.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Xelanar's Avatar
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    Dec 2015
    Posts
    298
    Character
    Xelanar Fhey
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    The main issue with stats is that people will look up optimal stats and gear for their jobs, regardless of what they do.
    Even with the current, very simple system, this is already happening.

    Making stats more complex and meaningful is not going to change what players already do:
    - Wear and meld whatever they want without consulting external resources.
    - Or look up guides and BiS gear tables that tell them what to wear and meld.

    In an ideal world players could prioritize stats that suit their playstyle, and each playstyle would be equally viable or at least very close to each other.
    The harsh reality of math is, however, that this is very difficult to accomplish for the amount of jobs available.

    I do agree that stats should be more meaningful and fun, and I'm pretty sure the devs do too. They just have not found a solution to rework stats in a way yet, that actually incentivises players to pick their gear up and meld it without relying on theorycrafters telling them what to do. And neither have I to be honest.
    I have thought about this a lot, specially when I kept juggling skill speed for Samurai around, and I always came to the conclusion that gearing up and managing stats is never fun (for me). It ends up being a priority system of Stat 1 > Stat 2 >= Stat 3 > Stat 4 with or without threshholds, to a point where having to pick up gear with suboptimal stat distribution can even feel bad. Most of the time changing what stats do will not break this system, which is probably why devs don't even bother with them anymore.
    (6)
    Last edited by Xelanar; 07-29-2024 at 02:25 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Tunda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Posts
    791
    Character
    Tunda King
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Xelanar View Post
    The main issue with stats is that people will look up optimal stats and gear for their jobs, regardless of what they do.
    Even with the current, very simple system, this is already happening.

    Making stats more complex and meaningful is not going to change what players already do:
    - Wear and meld whatever they want without consulting external resources.
    - Or look up guides and BiS gear tables that tell them what to wear and meld.

    In an ideal world players could prioritize stats that suit their playstyle, and each playstyle would be equally viable or at least very close to each other.
    The harsh reality of math is, however, that this is very difficult to accomplish for the amount of jobs available.

    I do agree that stats should be more meaningful and fun, and I'm pretty sure the devs do too. They just have not found a solution to rework stats in a way yet, that actually incentivises players to pick their gear up and meld it without relying on theorycrafters telling them what to do. And neither have I to be honest.
    I have thought about this a lot, specially when I kept juggling skill speed for Samurai around, and I always came to the conclusion that gearing up and managing stats is never fun (for me). It ends up being a priority system of Stat 1 > Stat 2 >= Stat 3 > Stat 4 with or without threshholds, to a point where having to pick up gear with suboptimal stat distribution can even feel bad. Most of the time changing what stats do will not break this system, which is probably why devs don't even bother with them anymore.
    So what ?

    let people who like to optimize optimize as they want..

    and people who like to try new things let them do what they want..

    in the end all of them can clear content it is just playstyle rather than "let's find the optimal stat and do it"

    let people build their character..
    we feel like we have nothing to build
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    angelar_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Posts
    53
    Character
    Angela Moray
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    the only stat rework i need is please for the love of god and all that is holy, stop putting skill speed on maiming gear
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    An old idea I've always had was they should merge Det and DH and Skillspeed/Spell Speed and add a new stat (umbral / astral) that can augment abilities based on meeting certain thresholds or enable certain actions. This would allow people to build gearing around skill affects they like to have, better customizing around their playstyle so for example, if you like more damage out of positionals, stack umbral, if you want more simplistic play but maybe a DoT to manage in your rotation, stack Astral.

    Healers, can stack umbral if they want more DPS utility or Astral if they want strong heals/ skills around healing. etc. If you build actions around hitting certain requirements of these stats, but not making it possible for the gearing to support all skills max effectiveness at the same time, it'll add alot more creativity to the gearing.

    Feel like that would hit everyone's wants.
    (0)
    Last edited by Havenchild; 07-29-2024 at 03:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Tunda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Posts
    791
    Character
    Tunda King
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    An old idea I've always had was they should merge Det and DH and Skillspeed/Spell Speed and add a new stat (umbral / astral) that can augment abilities based on meeting certain thresholds or enable certain actions. This would allow people to build gearing around skill affects they like to have, better customizing around their playstyle so for example, if you like more damage out of positionals, stack umbral, if you want more simplistic play but maybe a DoT to manage in your rotation, stack Astral.

    Healers, can stack umbral if they want more DPS utility or Astral if they want strong heals/ skills around healing. etc. If you build actions around hitting certain requirements of these stats, but not making it possible for the gearing to support all skills max effectiveness at the same time, it'll add alot more creativity to the gearing.

    Feel like that would hit everyone's wants.
    Astral and Umbral feels like bozja kind of stat.. I understand it could add something to the game but if we have to 2 healers all are umbral we can it will be harder and DPS loss for both of them

    second thing that job animations are so stiff to the point if you try to reduce casting time it will cut the animation which will broke the game visuals

    at this point just add new job that focus on dps more like sage or something like old scholar to be more dots..
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunda View Post
    Astral and Umbral feels like bozja kind of stat.. I understand it could add something to the game but if we have to 2 healers all are umbral we can it will be harder and DPS loss for both of them

    second thing that job animations are so stiff to the point if you try to reduce casting time it will cut the animation which will broke the game visuals

    at this point just add new job that focus on dps more like sage or something like old scholar to be more dots..
    For the Healers, that's fine if both would like umbral builds, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have potentially spicier runs by not having less shielding/ healing etc. Having a more guaranteed and safer run is a playstyle as well which I'm positive many people, myself included would prefer. I could give two craps about fflogs nowadays. I've gotten my orange parses once upon a time and I've realized while I can still enjoy seeing my number go up every week, it's not worth the stress or hassle to pursue the perfect run timewise. I rather keep the party going and get the raids done for the week (alongside getting my drops, especially when we talk about PF timelines), then dealing with "ooh, big number"

    With healers, it's also more complicated because you have two distinct identity theories clashing on what the "change" should be. You have a set of players that wants MORE DPS options on the class as a solution and another set that wants their HEALING skills to be more viable. You simply cannot have both. There is not enough healing any raid can force out consistently that doesn't put a massive strain on healer MP / resources while also asking them to maintain DPS. If you have to heal more especially via GCD, then you are doing less DPS but is the raid requirement for DPS going down? No and no evidence has ever shown that to date.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    ApolloGenX's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,396
    Character
    Galen Amaranthe
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    City of Heroes didn't have gear and thier gear system was more interesting.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,204
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Merge the speed stats, and make it not so problematic for job rotations please! I am so sick of defaulting to crit.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    ThaCa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    853
    Character
    Wise Fuchsia
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    I think Skill/Spell Speed would become a really practical stat if they ever pulled the trigger and made all DPS greedy with unique kits.

    Then you could use Speed to tweak your kits timeline to work better on the boss you are progging.
    (1)

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