Brainstorming DPS rotation changes for healers

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Perhaps then the real solution is to remove healers from the game and give every job Leech, where a portion of damage dealt heals the damage dealer. That way every player becomes responsible for their own survival.

This is generally my overall concern with the "give healers a DPS rotation" is that you have healers wanting to ALSO be dps; do we think the request for a rotation is going to stop at giving a healer a complex way to do the damage they do now? I suspect this is more a attempt to weasel in the "My healer DPS is too low after doing a good rotation" which kind of flies in the face of the problem.

Honestly my solution is simple....reduce tank survivability and healers will have plenty to do - I've lost count how many times I've died on Bard because I didn't get a heal before the 2nd raid wide and my 2nd wind is on Cd; and I still see a lot of healers failing the heal check in EX 1 of DT.

If they want to make healers have nice utility; then by all means feel free; not sure what that might look like but maybe thats the answer? Lower bard and Dancer DPS and up their healing; make all healing classes bring utilities similar to those classes...up machinist damage a bit and make them use scouting gear or something.

My big concern is this is people trying to open the door disingenuously to complain that their DPS is too low.

[TheDustyOne]

My big concern is this is people trying to open the door disingenuously to complain that their DPS is too low.

My concern is people tossing out my concerns because they think I care about what amount of damage I do rather than how I deal it. I don't play RDM and PLD because of high numbers (lol), but because I like their playstyles. I liked the playstyle that SB SCH had and would happily play that even with half of the current damage output.

The concern I have over healer DPS has more to do with overall game-feel and not raw numbers. Tossing out that concern over a slippery slope fallacy doesn't get anywhere.

[CaptainLagbeard]

This is generally my overall concern with the "give healers a DPS rotation" is that you have healers wanting to ALSO be dps; do we think the request for a rotation is going to stop at giving a healer a complex way to do the damage they do now? I suspect this is more a attempt to weasel in the "My healer DPS is too low after doing a good rotation" which kind of flies in the face of the problem.

Healers damage is definitely also an issue, and I say they should be buffed to a point where they are able to pull off as much damage as tanks do, minus whatever DPS loss is caused by having to stop to use heals.
But, for a rotation, I would also like to have more of a base gameplay than just Glare.

[Zeastria]

Forceing all healer jobs into one mold--> to plase ONE type of player is bad!
MMOs should strive for MORE variation and options, to reach as much players as possible!.

I'm all for haveing 1 healer to be more dps complex, to give option for those who wants that..
BUT not all of them...(I personally don't want complex dps.)

[Havenchild]

I don't think they should change how healers are at all without changing every other class first in terms of personal sustainability, mitigation or healing.

Any changes to healer as they are in the current class/encounter design will kill the healer population in PF and anyone saying otherwise without these changes is delusional in thinking it's a "good idea".

People on these forums consistently approach this topic believing there are 0 consequences to their ideas while simultaneously ignoring we have had the exact circumstances of "we need more damage in raid to use our healing kits more" and that directly hurt healer role in PF.

[Teno]

I don't think a couple short paragraphs are walls of text, but OK. Also I feel like you're trying to turn the game into something else, especially with "old = bad" or "just be more like PVP". It sounds like you'd be happier in Guild Wars 2. To use your own line, go somewhere else. I'll even suggest GW2.

Did you even read what I wrote or are you doing it on purpose ? You're new to the game, I gotcha. I'll also lay it out for you. Healers are green dps, have always been, and had gameplay to reflect that. Progressively, they've dumbed down the role so much that it's now 1111 spam. They've kept removing offensive gameplay from healers. In fact, what most healers want isn't even brand new stuff, it's a return of what worked perfectly fine on let's say scholar.

And surely you're no stranger to the abominations that are the mch or smn reworks, and the dumbing down of many more jobs recently.

Again, if you want a pure healer, go somewhere else, because even as it stands right now, healers are effectively still green dps, not pure healers lol. The quote best applies to you my dude.

[Teno]

How about no.

Seriously. The community needs to stop pushing for better DPS rotations on healers. I've been in a few too many dungeons so far this expansion where I wasn't healing and regretting it because the healer was way too focused on DPS to notice the tank was dead while I was trying to kite the mobs around to survive a couple of extra seconds to give the healer a chance to rez the tank just for all of us to end up dying because the healer was too busy playing DPS.

Healer then asks: what just happened?

Hello? You weren't healing. The tank died. I died. The other DPS died. You died. And you don't know what happened?

What's even worse is when it happens again 5 minutes later because they still can't be bothered to interrupt their DPS spam to toss the chain pulling tank a heal to keep them alive.

If this is how some healers are with a very limited DPS kit, there shouldn't be access to a more robust DPS kit. They need to focus on actual healing and not where they are in a DPS rotation.

This is the community's fault for pushing the "healers are required to DPS" mantra when they should be pushing "healers are required to heal, DPS should only be an afterthought" instead.

If a party is wiping, it's not because the healer isn't DPSing. It's because the healer isn't healing, or the DPS are bad at dealing damage, or anyone and everyone in the group is bad at doing the mechanics.

High-end raid healers may be able to pull off both healing and DPS in equal measure. The average healer usually can't.

If you're that obsessed with DPS rotations then please play DPS instead of healer.

Ah yes, punish all healers for healers who can't even fulfill basic roulette duties. Good solution indeed. Ah yes, the community is at fault for having healers do dps when the very game's foundations push for dps, and this is what people have come to like. Ah yes, if people wipe it's the healer's fault, of course they should have used their gcds for heals right, because that's what you're blaming. There never is any need for more than 1 or 2 ogcds. More than that and the party DESERVES to wipe, because they literally trolled you.

The average healer can very much do dps, because guess what, it's 11111. What are you expecting ? Standing idle and overhealing ? Dps already do something similar for the most part, which is use their 123 and never actually dps, leeching off the rest of the party. But it goes unnoticed because you can't tell dps right. The healer you mention is one who didn't mash a single ogcd and just queue to turn off their brain because it's a brainless role. More heals mean they simply won't queue as a healer but as a dps.

If you want to play a pure healer, go on another game.

These garb takes are out of this world these days. I guess it's xpac launch for you.

[Teno]

Nahh, healer rotations are fine. Sure...could be more engaging...but healing is more then just spam your heals...watch the list if anyone gets damage, watch the boss mechanics, throw in some "easy" damage skills without to much thought behind. If we get rotation im 99 percent sure, healers would rather finish their combos like dps instead of healing the group up. Its designed so that you wont get to "stressed" out about thinking doing optimal rotations.

Your case applies to beginner healers. Once you're past the 20-hour mark or something, you'll end up spamming 1111 without much forethought. You know, like how you git gud at a game and things come more naturally. But again, you'll end up spamming 1111.

[Teno]

Perhaps then the real solution is to remove healers from the game and give every job Leech, where a portion of damage dealt heals the damage dealer. That way every player becomes responsible for their own survival.

This is what they're doing, and is becoming more evident with DT. Non healers jobs have more support and heals. It's a direction I can get behind, but healers need to conversely have more offensive options.

[NegativeS]

Forceing all healer jobs into one mold--> to plase ONE type of player is bad!
MMOs should strive for MORE variation and options, to reach as much players as possible!.

I'm all for haveing 1 healer to be more dps complex, to give option for those who wants that..
BUT not all of them...(I personally don't want complex dps.)

The unfortunate thing is, because all healers actually heal differently, this would only partially solve the problem.

SGE currently has a semi-robust DPS kit...

I hate playing SGE. And no, not because it has DPS, but because of its stupid reactionary shield playstyle.

I would give anything for SCH or AST to have the amount of DPS tools that SGE has.