2 melee 2 ranged standard

[Supersnow845]

You misunderstand my point, I’m not saying buff PCT’s mobility I’m saying that based on the difference in IQR PCT’s mobility is roughly where it should be for a damage caster it has a wide range and falls where it should fall

There doesn’t need to be a buff or a nerf either way because if you are looking at gold then the melee at that level are also barely even trying to achieve the uptime the have

On average people struggle more with caster uptime than melee uptime, that isn’t an indication either way of my support for buffs or nerfs to any classes tools (the only one who is significantly out of whack is BLM who is more immobile than PCT but does less damage, but that’s a matter of BLM being too weak not PCT being too strong)

[W00by]

Apologies, you said "you need to balance around [x]" so I thought you meant, when considering the inevitable balance adjustments the game will receive soon, with PCT at the forefront of this conversation. But I don't think it necessarily "falls where it should fall" right now. At the moment, its rDPS at not only a maximum, but in the upper quartile as a whole, is outperforming melee DPS like Dragoon and Ninja while providing as much or more utility and arguably more mobility (depending on the fight, mechanic, timeline, and circumstances). It's objectively quite powerful right now. I don't really mind if that's where Square Enix wants it, but in upper-quartile-to-max ranges you could argue it's overperforming.

It's definitely indisputably true that people struggle more with caster uptime than melee uptime, but it's also true that PCT is brand new and fairly technical compared to some of the other jobs in the game. As time goes on, I think the lower quartiles and minimums will increase as people understand the mobility they have access to, so it will be interesting to see where things land there.

Either way, I still think it's wrong to say Picto is immobile because people aren't using its mobility. I can accept the claim that people are not playing PCT perfectly right now, but if the onus of the conversation is "Picto is immobile," then I would need to hear someone explain why it is immobile rather than just dismiss my claims because its mobility is being underused at the moment. The original commenter whose take was described as insane just said PCT is highly mobile, and I still haven't had anyone explain why that isn't the case using the job's design and gameplay.

[W00by]

At any rate, on the original subject; the 2-2-2-2 fight design is, unfortunately, essential to the game. Mechanics must be designed around the assumption that there are 2 melee, because even though there might not be, there always could be 2 melee. If you design fights around 1 melee, 3 ranged, then any comp that wanted to run 2 melee would have to deal with the fact that one of those melee will be severely limited by mechanical design, which would not be the case for a 3 ranged comp in a fight designed around 2 melee. Since casters are not impacted by being close or far from the boss, mechanics must always be designed around however many melee they can accommodate. If fights were designed around 4 melee and you could bring all 4 DPS, then people would just bring whichever 4 jobs are the best right now and you wouldn't even see things like aiming DPS in the current meta (which is a separate problem, but still unfortunately the case).

2 melee design is to allow both double caster and double melee to work--it doesn't demand one or the other.

Besides, in the current fight design of Dawntrail, you could argue that in all cases except damage, double melee isn't necessarily the best right now. It will always be the most damage, but now that Picto is out and doing damage comparable to and even surpassing melees, there's a strong argument for Melee + RDM/SMN + PCT + Aiming. This comp is damage suboptimal, but consider that throughout its entire life, RDM has been damage suboptimal, and it still sees a high playrate during progression and in party finder due to the value of the resurrection. If the upcoming Arcadion tier doesn't have tight DPS checks, I expect that the above comp will be the best in slot for progression or casual play.

The fact of the matter is, while 2 melee design exists, it is by no means necessary unless you are playing at the highest level, and even then, double caster can be very strong. Insisting on 2 melee is more of a community standard than a developer standard, and devs simply design mechanics to have 2 or more melee slots to ensur that, if there are two melee, they're not getting screwed over by mechanics. It's not to force you to bring two melee, and double caster works great right now.

Aiming are still in a super bad place, but there's less of them, so I guess that might be why they don't want double aiming (even though for 99% of content double aiming would still be fine).

[rewd]

Would you like to give some evidence for why you feel that this Picto take is insane? Smudge is among the best mobility skills in the game, and Swiftcast + Hammer Motif + Hammer Muse + Hammer Combo is an incredibly strong mobility resource that the Picto can move around between burst phases on the odd minute. Swiftcast + Motif in general is a stronger Swiftcast option than certain other hard casters have. I, too, think PCT is highly mobile when played at a high level.

You are asking for evidence why saying that PCT plays more like DNC/MCH/BRD instead of RDM/BLM? Are you trolling or are you actually serious?

[Valence]

To the OP, I think that even while it's always possible to run 3 ranged comps today, like RDM usually appreciating melee spots more than ranged spots, or BLM flexing around, and while it definitely works as such, I'd like seeing every role getting more identity defined for things specific to them to do. But idk what, and frankly it's not gonna happen before 8.0 anyway.

This forum has the most insane takes on caster jobs, it's crazy.

I guess if you play SMN, PCT is gonna look relatively cast constrained...

But no, it's insanely mobile:
- The amount of insta casts is wild, way higher than BLM/RDM. 5 stacks of holy, swtfcast + canvas, comets, hammers, smudge on demand...
- Absolute freedom on what to cast and when, anything can be swapped around without loss 99% of the time
- The beauty of the job is that every spell recast timer adjusts to leave a weave slot at the end no matter what, which is one of the biggest hurdles to BLM's mobility tools.

Past a point maybe there is also subjectivity in there. I absolutely suck at BLM mobility, I think it's so rigid and constrained that while it definitely has some tools to move, it requires a lot of planning ahead, when PCT can just adjust on the fly most of the time.

[rewd]

To the OP, I think that even while it's always possible to run 3 ranged comps today, like RDM usually appreciating melee spots more than ranged spots, or BLM flexing around, and while it definitely works as such, I'd like seeing every role getting more identity defined for things specific to them to do. But idk what, and frankly it's not gonna happen before 8.0 anyway.



I guess if you play SMN, PCT is gonna look relatively cast constrained...

But no, it's insanely mobile:
- The amount of insta casts is wild, way higher than BLM/RDM. 5 stacks of holy, swtfcast + canvas, comets, hammers, smudge on demand...
- Absolute freedom on what to cast and when, anything can be swapped around without loss 99% of the time
- The beauty of the job is that every spell recast timer adjusts to leave a weave slot at the end no matter what, which is one of the biggest hurdles to BLM's mobility tools.

Past a point maybe there is also subjectivity in there. I absolutely suck at BLM mobility, I think it's so rigid and constrained that while it definitely has some tools to move, it requires a lot of planning ahead, when PCT can just adjust on the fly most of the time.

1) Every job is very mobile or they would be incompatible with current fight design. Shocking discovery
2) Saying that PCT's amount of instant casts are way higher is absolutely unhinged lol Go do yourself a favour and go check some logs... Or a job guide
3) Having a lot of freedom doesn't mean absolute freedom,but I'm wasting my breath here

There is no subjectivity in saying that PCT could be a phys ranged. This is either ragebait (and it's my fault for engaging) or just a genuinely stupid opinion. If my fellow casters in this forum want to engage with this, I wish them good luck.

[Valence]

Yeah ok if your only argument is ad hominem because you actually have nothing to back it up, please save yourself the embarrassment.

[Supersnow845]

I think it sits somewhere in the middle

Saying the second least mobile class is basically a physical ranged is stupid (though that wasn’t the original point, they simply said it could be designed as a physical ranged implying more along the lines of the fact that the jobs freeform nature doesn’t necessarily have to work with casts. PCT with zero cast times and nothing else changed would still be a playable class) but PCT’s Freeform nature also allows it more movement ability than a generic “oh it spends 50% of 120 seconds casting so it’s super immobile”

PCT really only has a few hard rules

1) you must enter starry muse with a comet, wings/fangs and a hammer stored
2) you must use your off minute hammer as well as the other 3 creature muses + mog/madeen outside of starry muse
3) you must not overcap paint gauge

Beyond that you can do literally whatever you want with PCT’s rotation

So it ends up way more mobile than BLM despite casting about 85% as much simply because you have a lot of options for movement at any one time

[Myon88]

Fellas, if your casting job has...

1. A freeform rotation with a high degree of flexibility
2. Copious amounts of mobility and weave space
3. Strong cooldowns that benefit greatly from downtime

That's not pictomancer, that's stormblood summoner! As apology for the EW rework they basically made summoner 2.

[rewd]

I think it sits somewhere in the middle

Saying the second least mobile class is basically a physical ranged is stupid (though that wasn’t the original point, they simply said it could be designed as a physical ranged implying more along the lines of the fact that the jobs freeform nature doesn’t necessarily have to work with casts. PCT with zero cast times and nothing else changed would still be a playable class) but PCT’s Freeform nature also allows it more movement ability than a generic “oh it spends 50% of 120 seconds casting so it’s super immobile”

You are wrong here, Snow.

They could have designated this as a physical ranged job if they wanted to.

They didn't say "designed", they said "designated". They are two completely different verbs, although they look similar. They are saying DT could have launched with PCT in the physical ranged role and it would have made sense. Now you can look at this discussion again from the correct point of view and see how stupid it is (as you said).

Also, what the dungeon casters are saying (I don't mean it in a bad way, but none of them has a level cap PCT and one of them hasn't even unlocked it) is that you can press random buttons on PCT because it has "freedom". You are a serious caster, so you know there's plenty of planning on PCT, because it's a caster and planning your GCDs and oGCDs is part of basic caster gameplay. Unless you want to interrupt casts or botch your burst window, obviously.