Machinist: The "Selfish" Physical Ranged that is not allowed to be Selfish

[HyperiusUltima]

So, there's still a lot of problems with Machinist, and going into this expansion, I was thinking that it'd be able to actually become a job that can be big damage like its brother and sister BLM and SAM, since they've been left in the dust since Shadowbringers.

While BLM and SAM feel satisfying to play, just looking at MCH on paper feels...bad. While we consider Mobility to be a tax for Ranged, I feel like after they changed the job in Endwalker, they were missing something important - or should we say, a lot of things.

- Auto Crossbow is garbage. The fact that you also now have both Double Check and Checkmate with the SAME POTENCY AS AUTO CROSSBOW and now AoE fall-off makes this attack rather underwhelming. It requires 5+ enemies to even be a gain potency-wise compared to the Resets that Blazing Shot does. An AoE should not do that when we already have AoE abilities on jobs that do not go above 3+; also, can we please allow Auto Crossbow to reset Double Check and Checkmate even a little bit? It's jarring when you're so used to single target and on Auto Crossbow you don't get resets for your burst...

- Flamethrower is still extremely lackluster. 80 Potency for a channel that doesn't even generate Heat anymore for us since they scrapped that idea after Stormblood. 80p/s is ok, but you'd rather do anything else - like Scattergun in AoE. Flamethrower's only use now? AoE, and even in that department it sucks. For one, being a channel that doesn't even deliver on damage and gets outclassed by your basic AoE ability(that also generates HEAT!) shows that this should not have survived to the next expansion without a serious rework - even just a return to old Flamethrower with Heat generation would've been great.

- The one I will really drive home is Damage. MCH, in hindsight, has no buffs of any kind to allow the party to deal more damage. What MCH brings in terms of utility is the 15% DR and a 10% Damage Reduction. That's it. How is it not allowed to deal a large amount of damage when you have jobs like BRD/DNC that run a support niche with their constant suite of buffs and utilities? MCH has none of that. I can easily look at VPR and tell you how much utility it has: None, bar Feint. While Dismantle is essentially a good mitigation tool, it does not help MCH play into what its job is supposed to FEEL like. It's supposed to be selfish because it has very little raid utility compared to its betters, BRD/DNC, which provide more damage overall for their team; why is it not allowed to be selfish when this is an expac that could definitely have allowed it to be?

If anything, I wish that the developers could put some sense into MCH as a job because right now? Along with the rest of the Physical Ranged, MCH is truly bottom of the barrel when it comes to picking which flavor of "1% All Stats Buff" you want.

[Lanvaldear]

MCH hasn't ever been good since it was just Gunbard, and it likely never will be good again soon as Squeenix despises anything thats not a melee.

For the love of big boy numbers, can WF crit, dh or direct crit please? Its sad seeing its damage number be a limp noodle.

[Valence]

Big damage is a problem shared by the whole rphys roster. MCH is not faring worse than other rphys jobs (even it has had low bumps putting it dead last here and there in the game's history since shb). Pedantic note: ACB is not a gain at 4 targets, it just turns equal to blazing shot. The gain happens at 5+.

But I do agree with the feeling. If anything I'd like them to give us some battery AoE options. Even if just adding rook as an AoE option would go a great way to make it suck less. And it's not like it's going to make the job OP in AoE when you take a look at pictomancer or summoner...

[Tunda]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

[Taranok]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

I don't think MCH needs a rework aside from maybe baking in anti-drift into the game (without relying on multiple charges) and fixing the aoe rotation. But I don't think they need a risk/reward structure so much as the devs need to go back to the ARR and Stormblood encounter design era, and make tests that affect each role differently and uniquely. Neo Exdeath presents interesting examples for melee and casters in that delta attack is a problem for casters but not for melee, while vacuum wave and boss jumps were a test for melee but not casters. Rphys just didn't care, so it got taxed. Meanwhile, fights like UWU, UCOB, Turn 7, TEA, and a host of others have entire mechanics that capitalize on the thing that makes rphys unique -- unlimited mobility and range -- to test these roles in other ways. Classic example being brute justice's jump into apoc ray or what is probably barely known these days, the cyclops that had to be snared and kited around in turn 7. The risk is the cyclops will 1-shot you. The reward is solving the mechanic correctly with a second party member, allowing you to advance the fight. And you got to use a niche tool. Once. In all of end-game raiding.

Homogenizing mechanics down to dances that basically are giant middle fingers to casters but otherwise generic body checks or "Everyone just moves to the safe spot together," is just incredibly boring and frustrating design. And I'd really like to see a return to rphys having to bait liquid hells or boss jumps or, hell, having to draw aggro on a mob and kite it around for an extended period of time to correctly solve a mechanic later. Then the 'tax' is that you're multitasking, which has been the rphys gimmick since at least Stormblood anyways, and hopefully makes rphys players feel like they're needed because of something unique they do, instead of just there for the 1% buff and party mits that the devs have been giving to every role anyways.

[Valence]

I don't think MCH needs a rework aside from maybe baking in anti-drift into the game (without relying on multiple charges) and fixing the aoe rotation. But I don't think they need a risk/reward structure so much as the devs need to go back to the ARR and Stormblood encounter design era, and make tests that affect each role differently and uniquely. Neo Exdeath presents interesting examples for melee and casters in that delta attack is a problem for casters but not for melee, while vacuum wave and boss jumps were a test for melee but not casters. Rphys just didn't care, so it got taxed. Meanwhile, fights like UWU, UCOB, Turn 7, TEA, and a host of others have entire mechanics that capitalize on the thing that makes rphys unique -- unlimited mobility and range -- to test these roles in other ways. Classic example being brute justice's jump into apoc ray or what is probably barely known these days, the cyclops that had to be snared and kited around in turn 7. The risk is the cyclops will 1-shot you. The reward is solving the mechanic correctly with a second party member, allowing you to advance the fight. And you got to use a niche tool. Once. In all of end-game raiding.

Homogenizing mechanics down to dances that basically are giant middle fingers to casters but otherwise generic body checks or "Everyone just moves to the safe spot together," is just incredibly boring and frustrating design. And I'd really like to see a return to rphys having to bait liquid hells or boss jumps or, hell, having to draw aggro on a mob and kite it around for an extended period of time to correctly solve a mechanic later. Then the 'tax' is that you're multitasking, which has been the rphys gimmick since at least Stormblood anyways, and hopefully makes rphys players feel like they're needed because of something unique they do, instead of just there for the 1% buff and party mits that the devs have been giving to every role anyways.

I want more things to do as rphys and things to bait in general (pantokrator was one of the funniest/best raid I ever did as rphys), but it's hardly enough to justify this tax unless encounters are literally littered with it.

[Basteala]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

It's honestly this, whether Ranged mains want to hear it or not. Casters (true casters at least) have to worry about the bar, melee have to--in theory--worry about positionals and engagement range, even if both are kinda "eh" nowadays.

Ranged can kinda do whatever the frick it wants.

[CKNovel]

It's honestly this, whether Ranged mains want to hear it or not. Casters (true casters at least) have to worry about the bar, melee have to--in theory--worry about positionals and engagement range, even if both are kinda "eh" nowadays.

Ranged can kinda do whatever the frick it wants.

Viper exist, a job that can maintain perfect uptime thanks to Uncoiled Fury.
Black Mage isn't the turret fantasy it used to be.
Pictomancer has a lot of instant cast and a dash on a 20s that even grants a sprint just if you're not sure.
A lot of dashes have seen their damage removed, on charges, making melee uptime easier. Ranged GCDs don't break the combo anymore.
Positionals, if you somehow to manage missing them all, will cost you only 3% of your DPS.

Physical ranged can... Run in circles.
The challenge to keep the uptime isn't the same as back in Heavensward.

As for the final nail:
Back in E8S, we've had the first content ever that forced melees to disconnect many times. However the physical ranged remained at the bottom but instead it was the caster who went through the roof, SMN and BLM would wipe the floor with every other jobs, even RDM was able to compete with Samurai.
Turns, out, it wasn't the mobility that was strong, but the ability to attack from afar.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

BUT THEY HAVE RANGE!

*looks at the boss hitbox touching his feet from the edge of the arena*

[Reimmi]

How would people feel about mch becoming the only phys ranged with cast times?
Since bard/dancer have buffs, their low dps is more justified
but giving mch cast times (not every ability mind you) would ideally allow them to tune mch around sam/viper/blm levels
i personally think the ranged phys tax is stupid as hell, but they seem adamant about keeping it.