PLD viable for speed runs?

[PiedPiper]

Protip: /actionq on. then make a macro with these two lines in it:
/ac "Flash" <t>
/ac "Provoke" <t>

Do NOT put a wait in it.
It will clip the animation and get it off faster than you can hitting the buttons. You'll notice this leaves the cool down only 1 second apart and keeps them constantly together for 950 threat + modifier every 30 seconds. It'll also save time on your micro-management because it keeps these two on constant cool down and locked together using up minimal time to interfere with tp gain. This macro will NOT work if actionqeue isn't on (use the auto trans to spell it right, sorry lol).

Also, on coincounter, I usually hold both flash and voke for Instinct and have no issues hooligan back blms in a 40 second kill.

Pro tip 2: Do the same for antagonize rampart on war since ramp only buffs you on war and they have the same cool down!

Protip 3: Fire these macros during long animation weaponskills (like flat blade, spirrits, rage, steel cyclone, godsbane) and you'll often use the abilities either without any "squating" or only 1 squat, further maximizing tp gain!

Protip 4: YOUR JOB IS TO BUILD ENMITY. THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY AND MOST IMPORANT JOB.

You need everything to "tank well". It's not about simply "keeping hate", when you have really well geared black mages, they will be pushing that enmity threshold you set no matter what, even with perfectly cooled down quelling, freeze, and chameleon. You need enmity gear, not to win, but to win faster because your DDs aren't on a leash.

"Keeping hate" just means your dds saw they were red and slowed down. If this happens, you are a failure. You have held your group back increasing the odds of failing both the fight and things like speed run or 17 clear. Your job is to build threat. It is the whm's job to keep you alive. Do what you MUST to make living possible, but your primary purpose is threat.

[Aceofspades]

Protip: /actionq on. then make a macro with these two lines in it:
/ac "Flash" <t>
/ac "Provoke" <t>

Do NOT put a wait in it.
It will clip the animation and get it off faster than you can hitting the buttons. You'll notice this leaves the cool down only 1 second apart and keeps them constantly together for 950 threat + modifier every 30 seconds. It'll also save time on your micro-management because it keeps these two on constant cool down and locked together using up minimal time to interfere with tp gain. This macro will NOT work if actionqeue isn't on (use the auto trans to spell it right, sorry lol).

Also, on coincounter, I usually hold both flash and voke for Instinct and have no issues hooligan back blms in a 40 second kill.

Pro tip 2: Do the same for antagonize rampart on war since ramp only buffs you on war and they have the same cool down!

Protip 3: Fire these macros during long animation weaponskills (like flat blade, spirrits, rage, steel cyclone, godsbane) and you'll often use the abilities either without any "squating" or only 1 squat, further maximizing tp gain!

Protip 4: YOUR JOB IS TO BUILD ENMITY. THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY AND MOST IMPORANT JOB.


"Keeping hate" just means your dds saw they were red and slowed down. If this happens, you are a failure. You have held your group back increasing the odds of failing both the fight and things like speed run or 17 clear. Your job is to build threat. It is the whm's job to keep you alive. Do what you MUST to make living possible, but your primary purpose is threat.

in response to your last paragraph:

that is a completely bold and opinionated statement to make. You job as tank is actually two fold. Holding hate, while important is pointless if your squishy and die ando or put un due stress on your whms. That being said, DDs holding back happends periodically via fight dinamics anyways, examples (hate resets, running or hideing from devistating AOEs, refocusing attacks on adds when needed whild tank continues to hold boss, when tank is incaped and cant use vokes dds relativly slow down or stop,)

To say that one or the other take priority is simply an opinion, where staying alive is pointless if you dont have hate, keeping hate is pointless if you die everytime you take it. And I belive its important to remember, no matter how much enmity gear you have, most well geared DDs can take hate easly if they sought out to do so, Hate management is not just on the tank but the entire party.

Any tank who belive he/she held hate completley on their own , is oblivious to how the game mechanics work and is likely too relient on whm to stay alive. There is a time and place for a offensive tank , but its completely unreasonable to think that a defensive tank has no place in the game.

Final thought: The beauty of this game , as of now, is ones ability to do the same job as onther in a completly diffrent way. I personally belive that stacking HP as a priorty for tank is dumb, but I will not say that they cant get the job done, Its just my opinion that , that particular tatic is far less efficient. To tell somone that having their DDs watch their hate and be carefull not to pull it, a failer, is completely unreasonable and upity. I am willing to bet, I can tank in your position and your WHMs will perfer to have me over you , AND we will still get the job done even if just a little slower.

[Tango]

one thing to add here is that for CC speed the enmity burst of halowed ground at the start of chimera along with the increased zerg factor on groups of mobs makes PLD the better choice, our WAR can't keep enough hate on chimera for a full out zerg.

[KoujiGeki]

a pld can be better for speed runs honestly. we never use war and we are only 2-3 mins under the 17 min speed run for AV our set up is 1 brd 1 pld 2 whm 4 blm. once we get to a certain point all but the pld switch joints to 1 pld 1 whm rest all mnks. we get Miser to about 7% hp left before he runs off. And my mnks isnt capped at stats yet so if a few us get some better gear well be able to get that 17 min speed run with no problem. Pld can gain hate a whole lot faster than a war so dds can attack right away instead of waiting for hate.

[Zangetsu]

a pld can be better for speed runs honestly. we never use war and we are only 2-3 mins under the 17 min speed run for AV our set up is 1 brd 1 pld 2 whm 4 blm. once we get to a certain point all but the pld switch joints to 1 pld 1 whm rest all mnks. we get Miser to about 7% hp left before he runs off. And my mnks isnt capped at stats yet so if a few us get some better gear well be able to get that 17 min speed run with no problem. Pld can gain hate a whole lot faster than a war so dds can attack right away instead of waiting for hate.

Yes, PLD works fine for speed runs. Great hate.

For your AV runs have you tried 1 whm? They just have to manage Sacred Prism well. Have that other WHM become BLM and you will be able to clear each room much faster. Should give you the few minutes back you need to win. Once you get a solid strategy down that you think will work it's all about practice to make it as fluid as possible. Find out what works best for your group. Good luck.

[Aceofspades]

Back on topic, this is all about hate controll correct? simple answer, stack mind and spam fast blade > flat blade combo. this complements your tank well, only bad thing about this one is it dosent work well on chimera as the safest place to take him is on the side. HOWEVER, i found by waiting for chimera to proc next magic attack, running to the rear and then doing the def down and rage of halone combo, this makes up for some of the threat build on fast blad to flat blade combo, either way, chimera is tougher then most mobs to keep hate on but is completly doable if blms do their part . If you insist on tanking chimera from the front , well I wont say anything negative about it , because if your doing soo successfully then you are faster on the keys then I and I salute you for that. I like the side as it gives more security from taking damage from magic attcks due to action lock. oh and I would only proc the combo in the rear but then imdiatly run to the side once its been proced.

[Tman]

Consistency is definitely my biggest culprit on dmg fluctuations on anything outside of primals or bosses. I have yet to try any form of stat stacking for dmg output yet, so as Ace stated our compared SW's showed me doing less sometimes. My guess is due to my lower floor, or rather not meeting stat cap.

I do wonder if stacking hp such as I have in the past, if this could in turn raise my floor even though my stats are not capped, or would this just give a bigger potential fluctuation by raising my max potential?

I see now that while my theoretical dps from SW has a higher potential with max hp, it may be out-weighed by a lower average with better consistency since most bosses outside of primals tend to go down faster.

Good food for thought none the less

[Raze]

I think we can all agree that we go with what personally works for us. If it gets the job done, I say do it.

[Aceofspades]

I think we can all agree that we go with what personally works for us. If it gets the job done, I say do it.

Cheers to that, only time i even respond to these forums is when somone proclaims a certain set up is far better then any other. I will say tho, if your going to atempt to make a offensive tank, I would certainly support WAR for this role, as they are certainly better suited for it. I love pld because of its ability to be self relient and hold strong enmity without focusing on non defensive stats. but maybe thats just me.

[Brannigan]

Even with a warrior, DDs don't need to wait for hate on Miser's Mistress. Paladin works fine for a full AV 17 minute and so does warrior. I can't say I'd recommend paladin for the first half of a 17 min CC but I could see it working. The big advantage there would be having Hallowed Ground up for Chimera, so you could pretty much ignore dodging shit for 20 seconds and go nuts.