Are we destroying "our own" game?

[Alice_Rivers]

Or just have Cure 1/Benefic 1 upgrade to Cure 2/Benefic 2 like they should have from the start.

That doesn't fix the problem, you'll just have cure2bots instead.

[george357]

you do not pay my sub you do not own the company so why act like you do i am staying with this company and you trouble makers can just plain get lost.

[Bobby66]

Less destroying and more so I think people are just growing past FFXIV. The game still has a solid player vase and I am sure they have many people that do enjoy the game.

Just one of those things where a game may just not be for certain people anymore. That is not SE's fault or the players it is just a progression of his things go sometimes.

[Bibine_Bine]

It seems to me people are just being overly harsh on Wuk Lamat (who's not perfect, there's some stuff I don't like but overall she's just okay)
And then the rest of it is just the usual General Discussion forums bitching about people having their panties in a twist about this problem or the other. People complaining about the difficulty was pretty funny for a while.

Endwalker was a tough act to follow, and I think that's one of the really big reasons why Dawntrail felt less impactful.

[MsMisato]

Yeah I also liked the "not being main character" aspect tbf. But thats just a taste thing I guess

I play the game on german so maybe thats also part of why I have another feeling about the story? Especcially Wuk Lamat seems to be hated by many (englisch playing) people.

Also thanks to everyone for the replies, appearently the forum grew BECAUSE of bad feelings not vice versa.. sad tho

im going to say the Japanese player base isn't too happy about it either for the most part. there have been quite a few negative take aways from their side of about the expansion. I put the game down for a bit i literally got bored of the story. There isn't anything to keep me going on what happens next.

[ZXN]

There's not being the main character, and then there is being relegated to cheerleader forced to like something. Literally, the few times we can respond with something other than praise to Wuk, another character chimes in saying that the WoL is happy or supportive of Wuk. We weren't the main character through SB and even HW through most of their campaigns, but we were still not simply a cheerleader.

I was hoping the more "sassy" answers would stay when we had a few of them in the beginning half; like telling Wuk that "ideals are nice in theory" when she dragged us to outside the palace to talk about peace yet again, or saying that "Wuk wasn't ready to rule" when Gulool asked us for an honest answer. I pretty much lost hope once we talked to Bakool and even after the game forces you to answer that Bakool's story doesn't absolve him of his crimes; Wuk comes in and goes "lets be friends", and his crimes have now been absolved instantly and we just agree with it and it's done. Why give us an option to say something that literally is made irrelevant 5 seconds later? Eventually the sass is just kinda...gone, and now if the options involve Wuk, it's just praise and support.

Like you said, in Heavensward and Stormblood we weren't the "Main" character. We were a side/support character, but we still actually DID stuff to help out. Daichi Hiroi though really let his theater side out with Dawntrail: basically turning our WoL into an audience member at a theater play who is there to just watch. I didn't mind being on the backburner for Dawntrail, I was kind of welcoming it given how drained Endwalker's MSQ and Post-Patch MSQ made me from how they were written. The issue is how they went about doing it. I know they had to "wrangle in" our character given the threats we slayed in Endwalker, and how if we actually took charge in Dawntrail everything would be completely effortless and done in no time, but the fact they decided the best way to wrangle us in was to literally have our character do absolutely nothing unless required along with being a forced yes man cheerleader for Wuk Lamat the entire expansion is just terrible design.

[BelmontLion]

Browsing through the forum here and watching Youtube videos I clearly see how people seem super unhappy with the new Expansion.
Playing the game for myself and also in my fc and social groups I did not experience that feedback for quite a while.
I never checked this froum in the past and just came here recently to look for the "community voice" but.. is it really that bad? Are people that mad about DT or was it always like that in the forum? Maybe someone that observed the forum for a few years can tell me.

I personally think DT is fine story wise.. sure it may not be peak epic but I feel like it is quite good. I was entertained especcially for the last part of it.

The content imo is great. It is more entertaining than in the past and we now even can wipe here and there, which is often funny. People are saying it is too hard but idk isnt it exciting to have a look at the boss while doing roulettes? (talking about dungeons)

For the raids it is kind of the same. I dont feel like they are particulary harder than - for example - ShB Normal Raids?

Are here any people that actually enjoy the game? And if not.. where are they? I've heard player counts are looking good, and I tbh can imagine why.

It makes me kind of sad hearing all that stuff about "dungeons too hard for me" "raids too easy for me" "story is bad" "bring back stormblood", I have the feeling people are more and more driven into the mindset "Well if everyone says it is bad.. then it must be bad!" until they actually feel that way.

I am enjoying the story but It has a bunch of generic tropes which is surprising for a story coming from square enix.

[Naryoril]

Personally i liked the story a lot, up until we hit the Heritage Found. From there on, it is a mess that is full of plot holes that has been shoehorned into too little time, it should have been it's own expansion, or maybe at least 2 content patches. Plot holes like this are also the reason why i'm not such a fan of Endwalker as most other people seem to be.

That said, I like more personal, low stake stories, and I get why others don't. I think this is a big part of how people see the first section of DT's story. I also think it's nice to be in a mentor role for a change, and successfully make our protégé grow. Which brings me to Wuk Lamat, who I like as well, I like here energetic determination. That said, I play with Japanese voice overs, and the bits and pieces I have heard in English, her VA does a really bad job in comparison. In the English voice overs, she feels much more whiney, and doesn't have that determination I like about her.

The complaint about the whole power of friendship thing though: I really hope those same people were also up in arms about Endwalker, because in the final fight there, we also literally get saved by the power of friendship, even more so than between Wuk Lamat and Sphene. And Shadowbringers was the same in some sense too (there it was Ardbert).

And to the people complaining about the repetetiveness of the story with gathering the proofs: Imo Shadowbringer was way worse in that regard with the whole "go to next area, kill big sin eater to bring back the night, rinse and repeat". In DT it's only 3 areas, in ShB it's 5.

[CNitsah]

And to the people complaining about the repetetiveness of the story with gathering the proofs: Imo Shadowbringer was way worse in that regard with the whole "go to next area, kill big sin eater to bring back the night, rinse and repeat". In DT it's only 3 areas, in ShB it's 5.

Yeah, but each of those individual stories were written better, putting one different scions on the spot each time. Look at how more fleshed out are the Night Blessed compared to any of the DT "tribes", despite also having 2 settlements in Rak'tika. We know of their belief, their way of life, the fact there are divisions amongst them, even their burial rituals.

To me, the whole "the problem is the low stake story" is a false argument. The problem is that every single one of those stories were plagued with plotholes/bad writing that made you wonder how this could even work as a society.

- How do the Hanu² not know about their festival and why is there someone that knows in the village and tells nothing?
- How do the the moblin don't know that putting people to work just next to the fire is wrong and do not know what food tend to suit each race if that system has existed for 80 years. It's supposed to be a working system, not a trial one.
- How do the Yok Huy suddenly agree to let strangers on their sacred mountain... because one was saved from a big bird? I'm sorry, but how can I believe it's a tradition that existed for hundreds of years if they throw it away like that.
- How can the Pelu² race trait can be limited to trading and drinking, and the Hrothgar one be limited to one dish. It feels shallow.
- The Mamool ja is definitely one of the better ones, but still how can they throw their tradition away like that? and if it was not as deeply rooted in their culture and so many wanted to change it, why did it has to wait you arrive for it to happen. There should have already be a shiism to be believable.

Some people pretend it was a worldbuilding extension, but the worldbuilding in DT has been mostly subpar. If you main questions remain "how does that work? how can that society work like that?", you failed at worldbuilding. This is one of my biggest problem with DT. None of those points is fundamentally bad, and with a little more care about them, all of them could have work far better. That's really what bother me, the lack of care the game used to give to that kind of element.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

- The Mamool ja is definitely one of the better ones, but still how can they throw their tradition away like that? and if it was not as deeply rooted in their culture and so many wanted to change it, why did it has to wait you arrive for it to happen. There should have already be a shiism to be believable.

Not to mention the practice in question is interracial breeding. So...how are they gonna stop that? Stop encouraging interracial relationships? Are the interracial couples already together gonna break up? Or are they gonna just stop trying for children? Will they make interracial relationships illegal?