Are we destroying "our own" game?

[Volgia]

It's not hyperbole if it's true. And take a look at the ratings. The "best" comparison anyone has ever actually managed to make puts it as equal to ARR's ratings in one single category. It is, by all measurable metrics, the worst expansion XIV has had.

So when we say it's the worst expansion we are just refering to the MSQ, yes?
Cuz listen, I don't know if anyone else is the same, about about a month into any expansion I sort of forget about the MSQ altogether, and all that's left is crafting, leveling other jobs, doing extremes and savages before we wait for the next patch.

By this metric, to me, the worst expansion is still Endwalker. I've never taken such long breaks from a game turning out so dull and boring, not in SB and not in ShB.

The title of this thread is "are we destroying our own game" , but my biggest criticism of ALL FFXIV, is that I never felt like I was playing a game in the MSQ, I was just watching cutscenes and choosing the three responses to a dialogue that had absolutely no effect in the story or characters whatsoever. It was just me waiting for a solo duty, or a dungeon, to finally use my character for something.

So when we talk about the metrics of a game, of playable content, that's raids, trials and dungeons, to an extent, crafting and gathering. And by that metric, Dawntrail is 100% ahead of the game for me. Much more than Metacritic's 98/100 review from Endwalker, an expansion that was so bad I thought I was gonna quit playing this game for good.

[Isala]

So when we say it's the worst expansion we are just refering to the MSQ, yes?
Cuz listen, I don't know if anyone else is the same, about about a month into any expansion I sort of forget about the MSQ altogether, and all that's left is crafting, leveling other jobs, doing extremes and savages before we wait for the next patch.

By this metric, to me, the worst expansion is still Endwalker. I've never taken such long breaks from a game turning out so dull and boring, not in SB and not in ShB.

The title of this thread is "are we destroying our own game" , but my biggest criticism of ALL FFXIV, is that I never felt like I was playing a game in the MSQ, I was just watching cutscenes and choosing the three responses to a dialogue that had absolutely no effect in the story or characters whatsoever. It was just me waiting for a solo duty, or a dungeon, to finally use my character for something.

So when we talk about the metrics of a game, of playable content, that's raids, trials and dungeons, to an extent, crafting and gathering. And by that metric, Dawntrail is 100% ahead of the game for me. Much more than Metacritic's 98/100 review from Endwalker, an expansion that was so bad I thought I was gonna quit playing this game for good.

I will acknowledge that the Raids and the Trials are actually more enjoyable. However, those also suffer from the worst Job Design we've ever had. The treatment our Jobs got this expansion is actually worse than the MSQ. And sadly, no matter how enjoyable a fight is, you have to experience that through Jobs that still suck to play. We got pretty much nothing this expansion for any of them, and had things straight up removed from several of them. And I'm sorry, but pushing a button every two minutes TWICE instead of just once isn't engaging in the least.

[Volgia]

I will acknowledge that the Raids and the Trials are actually more enjoyable. However, those also suffer from the worst Job Design we've ever had. The treatment our Jobs got this expansion is actually worse than the MSQ. And sadly, no matter how enjoyable a fight is, you have to experience that through Jobs that still suck to play. We got pretty much nothing this expansion for any of them, and had things straight up removed from several of them. And I'm sorry, but pushing a button every two minutes TWICE instead of just once isn't engaging in the least.

Right but here we are again, Dawntrail's treatment to job design is just Endwalker's treatment to job design, you can critique (and i'll agree with you) that DT didn't add anything exciting to the jobs, but that's coming out of the worst expansion in FF14, and not on Dawntrail, the expansion which at least gave us, so far, better content.

[Kaurhz]

Just to add to this topic, and to address the question in the title.

I don't think 'we' are destroying the game. Nor do I ever think 'we' will - If 'we' in this is the community. All the players and community can do is voice their concerns, it is entirely on the developers as to how exactly this is actioned.

If anything destroys the game, I personally think it will be the developers, just because with any complaint, they haven't really taken that step to actually understand some of the issues people have with the game, so they're always dancing on this limbo between game is too hard, and game is too easy, and I just can't shake the feeling that all they are doing and will do is yo-yo between the two.

What I mean by this is they aren't taking the time to try and understand the why, but are more concerned with the result. Regardless of how that result came to be. If the game is too hard, then why are people finding it too hard? Is it because the earlier game doesn't adequately prepare? Are they running under the assumption everyone will do xyz content, e.g., raids before progressing to the next expansion. Is it because the game has very poor standards of accessibility? e.g., for the visually impaired (it does). If classes were too hard, then why did people find them too hard? - Just to give a few examples.

Story is a bit of a difficult one, as sometimes here it just feels like they are trying to make stories memorable through 'cheap' feels, and aren't necessarily giving an authentic reason for the player to actually carem but rather something that comes across as unauthentic.

[Isala]

Right but here we are again, Dawntrail's treatment to job design is just Endwalker's treatment to job design, you can critique (and i'll agree with you) that DT didn't add anything exciting to the jobs, but that's coming out of the worst expansion in FF14, and not on Dawntrail, the expansion which at least gave us, so far, better content.

Currently, I would give DT 6 instances, and a few bosses of "better content". The two Trials and their Extremes, the Raids, and a handful of interesting fights in Dungeons. The rest of it is NOT any better. The dungeons themselves are still the same slog they always are, and use the same boring mechanics, outside of some notable improvements. The final Trial, regrettably, as cool as it very much was, immediately hits negative points with "sphene." and everything after that.

Graphically, the instances are very well done. I do like the LOOKS of the dungeons. But judging an MMO by how things look isn't going to get you many points in the good column. But as for other non-combat content? Even the open world feels more lacking than usual. Oh, there's plenty of style, but zero substance. They're wide open expanses with literally nothing in them. The FATES basically function like open world bandit camps. If this was an actual open world game, I'd say those are the places you go to get your randomly dropping greys, or more realistically, those are the places that annoy you as you try to drive past them in your vehicle.

I cannot think of a single thing DT actually does better than any other expansion, if I'm being completely frank. Because everything they are currently doing still actually pales in comparison to the offerings of other expansions. When you compare the EXs to something like Thordan, Nidhogg, or Shinryu, they don't surpass them. When you compare the Raids to some of the fights in Alex, or even Eden, they're equal, but not superior.

So even the very best parts of this expansion still aren't better than the previous expansions, and the worst parts of this expansion drag it down HARD.

[Zarkovitch]

It's a game issue for MSQ. As for content they wanted trust the playerbase to do normal harder content without tools to backing up the players who didnt have the proper tools back in SHB and EW, thats a dev issues.

[SamuraiMiqo]

The latter half of the story was just soured by the first half imo

By that point I was *sick* of Wuk Lamat’s constant need to be attached to our hip everywhere we go. It was a point where if she was on the screen, I’ll just skim over the text and click through everyone’s dialogue before the voice actors could finish reading.

If the 2nd half had focused on Krile, who had large ties to the Golden City. Or had it focus on Erenville and Cachiua, it would've been much more enjoyable. Wuk Lamat just overstayed her welcome.

This is pretty much how I felt as well

[Balmung_Griffin]

this... so much this. it would have been awesome if we could have joined in on the train and actually SHOT AT THINGS. but then, I suppose this can be excused for the "accessibility" rant because people are too incompetent at high level in a VIDEO GAME to be able to hit anything.

not to mention, they could have given a choice to assist with cooking, with a good or bad outcome, if you were a culinarian, it could have enhanced it one way, if you werent, could have added a "surprising taste" since all that was required was learning the local customs. honestly, the people pressing for "accessibility" clearly cant see any way it could be done properly that actually allows everyone to still do it while making the story better.

I've been thinking about this and the game goes out of its way to make us a multidisciplinar hero but none of it is taken in consideration while we're adventuring.

Imagine those quests where we as WoL have to identify and collect plants, now wouldn't be cool if we also advance our DoL classes while doing this? Get us some XP at least, make some new options, make it easier for players that put the time on other classes!

Same thing with some DoL/DoH quests were an enemy appears and WoL forgets he's a Hero of Might and Magic and we just stand there looking silly.

An example, DT fisher Quest has you help a Blue Mage and the WoL shows no interest in their technique, wouldn't be cool if we could get a new skill (even if it would be just an new effect to an existing skill with no changes to potency and whatever)

Again, I agree completely with your point, giving player agency makes players more invested in their quest and FFXIV having multiple jobs/disciplines should expand the game's boundaries instead of funnelling to current equiped class.

[Colt47]

The latter half of the story was just soured by the first half imo

By that point I was *sick* of Wuk Lamat’s constant need to be attached to our hip everywhere we go. It was a point where if she was on the screen, I’ll just skim over the text and click through everyone’s dialogue before the voice actors could finish reading.

If the 2nd half had focused on Krile, who had large ties to the Golden City. Or had it focus on Erenville and Cachiua, it would've been much more enjoyable. Wuk Lamat just overstayed her welcome.

The second half feels at least somewhat salvageable. It still had problems like the pacing was too fast, horrible voice acting and one of the cringiest moments ever in a final battle I have experienced in this game that even beats ARR. That isn't an aspiration someone should try for, but they did it!

Shaaloani I'm not including in the above statement because that place was a waste of development time entirely. We basically just have to hope the content drops are going to make up for the horrific story and that somehow they can trivialize the entire thing so we never have to see or think about this stuff in the future. The image of Wuk Lamat shouting "Spheeeeeeeeeene!" in the most stilted way possible is going to keep popping up every time I see the Queen Eternal in Extreme mode...

[Balmung_Griffin]

The image of Wuk Lamat shouting "Spheeeeeeeeeene!" in the most stilted way possible is going to keep popping up every time I see the Queen Eternal in Extreme mode...

EX should have Queen Eternal slapping Wuk Lamat off arena while she screams "Spheeeeeene"

"Shut up, I've barely knew ya"

Do it, you cowards!