Are we destroying "our own" game?

[Volgia]

It's not hyperbole if it's true. And take a look at the ratings. The "best" comparison anyone has ever actually managed to make puts it as equal to ARR's ratings in one single category. It is, by all measurable metrics, the worst expansion XIV has had.

So when we say it's the worst expansion we are just refering to the MSQ, yes?
Cuz listen, I don't know if anyone else is the same, about about a month into any expansion I sort of forget about the MSQ altogether, and all that's left is crafting, leveling other jobs, doing extremes and savages before we wait for the next patch.

By this metric, to me, the worst expansion is still Endwalker. I've never taken such long breaks from a game turning out so dull and boring, not in SB and not in ShB.

The title of this thread is "are we destroying our own game" , but my biggest criticism of ALL FFXIV, is that I never felt like I was playing a game in the MSQ, I was just watching cutscenes and choosing the three responses to a dialogue that had absolutely no effect in the story or characters whatsoever. It was just me waiting for a solo duty, or a dungeon, to finally use my character for something.

So when we talk about the metrics of a game, of playable content, that's raids, trials and dungeons, to an extent, crafting and gathering. And by that metric, Dawntrail is 100% ahead of the game for me. Much more than Metacritic's 98/100 review from Endwalker, an expansion that was so bad I thought I was gonna quit playing this game for good.

[Isala]

So when we say it's the worst expansion we are just refering to the MSQ, yes?
Cuz listen, I don't know if anyone else is the same, about about a month into any expansion I sort of forget about the MSQ altogether, and all that's left is crafting, leveling other jobs, doing extremes and savages before we wait for the next patch.

By this metric, to me, the worst expansion is still Endwalker. I've never taken such long breaks from a game turning out so dull and boring, not in SB and not in ShB.

The title of this thread is "are we destroying our own game" , but my biggest criticism of ALL FFXIV, is that I never felt like I was playing a game in the MSQ, I was just watching cutscenes and choosing the three responses to a dialogue that had absolutely no effect in the story or characters whatsoever. It was just me waiting for a solo duty, or a dungeon, to finally use my character for something.

So when we talk about the metrics of a game, of playable content, that's raids, trials and dungeons, to an extent, crafting and gathering. And by that metric, Dawntrail is 100% ahead of the game for me. Much more than Metacritic's 98/100 review from Endwalker, an expansion that was so bad I thought I was gonna quit playing this game for good.

I will acknowledge that the Raids and the Trials are actually more enjoyable. However, those also suffer from the worst Job Design we've ever had. The treatment our Jobs got this expansion is actually worse than the MSQ. And sadly, no matter how enjoyable a fight is, you have to experience that through Jobs that still suck to play. We got pretty much nothing this expansion for any of them, and had things straight up removed from several of them. And I'm sorry, but pushing a button every two minutes TWICE instead of just once isn't engaging in the least.

[Volgia]

I will acknowledge that the Raids and the Trials are actually more enjoyable. However, those also suffer from the worst Job Design we've ever had. The treatment our Jobs got this expansion is actually worse than the MSQ. And sadly, no matter how enjoyable a fight is, you have to experience that through Jobs that still suck to play. We got pretty much nothing this expansion for any of them, and had things straight up removed from several of them. And I'm sorry, but pushing a button every two minutes TWICE instead of just once isn't engaging in the least.

Right but here we are again, Dawntrail's treatment to job design is just Endwalker's treatment to job design, you can critique (and i'll agree with you) that DT didn't add anything exciting to the jobs, but that's coming out of the worst expansion in FF14, and not on Dawntrail, the expansion which at least gave us, so far, better content.

[Isala]

Right but here we are again, Dawntrail's treatment to job design is just Endwalker's treatment to job design, you can critique (and i'll agree with you) that DT didn't add anything exciting to the jobs, but that's coming out of the worst expansion in FF14, and not on Dawntrail, the expansion which at least gave us, so far, better content.

Currently, I would give DT 6 instances, and a few bosses of "better content". The two Trials and their Extremes, the Raids, and a handful of interesting fights in Dungeons. The rest of it is NOT any better. The dungeons themselves are still the same slog they always are, and use the same boring mechanics, outside of some notable improvements. The final Trial, regrettably, as cool as it very much was, immediately hits negative points with "sphene." and everything after that.

Graphically, the instances are very well done. I do like the LOOKS of the dungeons. But judging an MMO by how things look isn't going to get you many points in the good column. But as for other non-combat content? Even the open world feels more lacking than usual. Oh, there's plenty of style, but zero substance. They're wide open expanses with literally nothing in them. The FATES basically function like open world bandit camps. If this was an actual open world game, I'd say those are the places you go to get your randomly dropping greys, or more realistically, those are the places that annoy you as you try to drive past them in your vehicle.

I cannot think of a single thing DT actually does better than any other expansion, if I'm being completely frank. Because everything they are currently doing still actually pales in comparison to the offerings of other expansions. When you compare the EXs to something like Thordan, Nidhogg, or Shinryu, they don't surpass them. When you compare the Raids to some of the fights in Alex, or even Eden, they're equal, but not superior.

So even the very best parts of this expansion still aren't better than the previous expansions, and the worst parts of this expansion drag it down HARD.

[Pebeus]

The worst expansion is still Endwalker.

Yes, Endwalker not only had an aberrant story that destroyed everything the previous expansions tried to build, but it also had the worst dungeon design and bosses (except TOP) in the entire game, it homogenized jobs even more than Shadowbringers had done and also began to aggravate the constant recycling of weapons and armor, it was a horrible expansion both in story and in gameplay and content.