Another rant about S ranks

[Wilford111]

The thing is, the vast majority isn't working (together) in any way. They are just there to reap the rewards of the few spawner's work.

Yeah lol my point is that SE needs to change how the system works.

[EponaTBHSMH]

3rd party mods are not a gray area and they never have been.

OK let me rephrase what I really meant by this:

People are going to keep using 3rd party tools because SE has no way to properly enforce a way not to use them aside from a successful investigation after a report, they can never be proactive about it as YoshiP has stated in live letters multiple times.

Because of that, as long as people keep quiet about it and don't report, the 3rd party tools use in hunts is here to stay, that's the point I was trying to make.

If SE is ever going to change things about hunts, it's better not to expect anything about 3rd party tools cuz that's part of a much larger issue

I also personally believe that even if there was no third party tools and no tracking website, people would still get upset at missing a hunt, the stakes are just too high now, cool mounts, cool titles, alternative to running expert roulettes, gear upgrades, therefore pull time would still be an issue

It would just switch from "I missed this hunt because 3rd party tool" to "I missed this because people from X world are mean and dont wait for people in world transfer/DC travel queue"

[JellaW]

We can talk about "early pulling" or community rules all we want, but as others said that doesn't really concern SE, unless the offending players are hostile on chat.

A much more relevant issue, is how plugins are leaving console/vanilla players in the dust. Currently, there are several dozen players in each datacenter that, on the milisecond a Dawntrail S rank is pinged anywhere, use a combination of plugins to instantly queue on server transfer without a single player input. Other players who try to queue even 5 seconds later (manual input, or just not staring at the aetheryte) are hit with a 50+ queue. That queue can take several minutes to resolve, and the S rank can die before that.

This issue affects the gameplay of console/vanilla users, who are left with few options. "Spawn them yourself" only goes so far, if you want to finish the S rank achievements anytime soon. Ls/cwls are in decline, with few people volunteering to relink and very few member spaces. Discord notifications are fine but cannot compete with literal plugin automation.

Since most plugins are strictly personal and have no effect on others, SE has silently ignored them. This is a case where they affect others. Is Square going to do anything about it and balance the situation for console/vanilla users?

Perhaps Square cannot/doesn't want to police plugins, for the reasons already stated. Then they should search for other solutions. From investing in faster server transfer infrastructure, to allowing server transfer from *any* aetheryte, not just the city states. Another proposal is to dynamically scale up the hunt hp according to the number of people in the map. We know SE already has this technology, for example the Ttokkrrone and Mica fates are scaled on the moment of pull.
What would be a terrible idea is to restrict/remove rewards from hunt marks. You do not solve a problem by making it so boring that few people would join, that's bad game design. Rather, you search for solutions to make the content interesting and accomodate players that want to join, while also making them do their part. For example, higher hp forcing people to dps instead of hitting once for credit, or make more collaborative S ranks like Narrow Rift.

[Jojoya]

3rd party mods are not a gray area and they never have been.



The reason why this content is so contentious is because people use their 3rd party mod information to world transfer earlier than anyone else, making them have an advantage. Then they go and pull the S-rank before anyone else can possibly arrive, making this content extremely frustrating for console players and those that want to follow TOS.

It's not the hunt mods that giving them that much advantage. Centurio Hunts deliberately taps into the main mod (with the consent and assistance of its developer) to take away the advantage users of the mod have. Some of the Faloop spawners also use that mod so they can relay a spawn as fast as possible. I know a lot of people think that the mods "magically" detect a spawn regardless of where but the reality is that the mod is dependent on someone using the mod being in the correct zone at the time the S rank is spawned. That's not always the case.

The real advantage they have comes from aetheryte camping. They're doing nothing but sitting at one of the 3 main city aetherytes waiting for the next spawn to happen so they can get there as fast as possible. Most other players aren't. They're in the middle of doing other things that they have to stop doing then teleport and load into a crowded zone that's getting even more crowded as others show up for the same reason.

[LibitIncarne]

A much more relevant issue, is how plugins are leaving console/vanilla players in the dust. Currently, there are several dozen players in each datacenter that, on the milisecond a Dawntrail S rank is pinged anywhere, use a combination of plugins to instantly queue on server transfer without a single player input..

That's not the case.
People are just being lucky to be the first person to be there, get the FiloBot relay, and click the world as soon as they're pinged.
There is player input for getting the relay ping. There is player input on hearing the ping. There is player input on queuing to another server. You're just one of several players who thinks that plugins are worse than the funny austrian painter and that anyone who's performing better than you think is possible is automatically using one.

[JellaW]

That's not the case.
People are just being lucky to be the first person to be there, get the FiloBot relay, and click the world as soon as they're pinged.
There is player input for getting the relay ping. There is player input on hearing the ping. There is player input on queuing to another server. You're just one of several players who thinks that plugins are worse than the funny austrian painter and that anyone who's performing better than you think is possible is automatically using one.

I regret to tell you, but I'm sadly correct.

I'm a spawner/conductor myself and am very aware of the multiple tools several players are using to get ahead of the queue, and have seen multiple screenshots/videos proving it, as well as people just admitting it on discord. Not sure if I'm allowed to say the plugin names here, but otherwise I don't want to promote them, just draw the developer's attention to them and the harm they cause to console/vanilla users.

[Besame]

I appreciate your candor JellaW. Thank you.

[LibitIncarne]

I regret to tell you, but I'm sadly correct.

I'm a spawner/conductor myself and am very aware of the multiple tools several players are using to get ahead of the queue, and have seen multiple screenshots/videos proving it, as well as people just admitting it on discord. Not sure if I'm allowed to say the plugin names here, but otherwise I don't want to promote them, just draw the developer's attention to them and the harm they cause to console/vanilla users.

And as you can see on post #23 (And here, with an extra image showing FALOOP'S FOUNDER TELLING PEOPLE TO USE A PLUGIN) in this thread, you are literally no better than them.
Would you like to defend your usage of third party tools to locate hunt marks or are you going to only focus on the players not in your clique that use them?

If you have actual video proof of a player using third party tools to completely automate movement and data center travel as soon as a hunt mark is detected on FiloBot, you can send that to me via Discord. I have already sent you a message to start this conversation off.
Otherwise you are a fearmongering hypocrite.

[JellaW]

If you have actual video proof of a player using third party tools to completely automate movement and data center travel as soon as a hunt mark is detected on FiloBot, you can send that to me via Discord. I have already sent you a message to start this conversation off.
Otherwise you are a fearmongering hypocrite.

Fascinating stuff coming from an internet stranger. As we talked on discord, it's true that these automating plugins exist, are used by several people on each datacenter, and block the server transfer queue for several minutes for vanilla/console users that cannot compete with automation.

Further, a simple search of your discord ID around some FFXIV discord servers shows that you know of these plugins, so please spare me the indignation.

Finally, I'm not here to defend other plugins, so your silly trap with screenshots isn't going to work. If Square suddenly decided to enforce their ToS regarding plugins, I would be fine with it.
The only thing I say, is that personal plugins, although not ideal and clearly against ToS, have no effect or harm on other people. That's why Square is ignoring them. But there are a few plugins that limit the gameplay of console/vanilla users, as I explained on my previous post. Is Square Enix ok with that?

Since yelling at the plugin developers probably isn't going to work, my only option is to talk about them here.

[LibitIncarne]

Finally, I'm not here to defend other plugins, so your silly trap with screenshots isn't going to work. If Square suddenly decided to enforce their ToS regarding plugins, I would be fine with it.
The only thing I say, is that personal plugins, although not ideal and clearly against ToS, have no effect or harm on other people. That's why Square is ignoring them. But there are a few plugins that limit the gameplay of console/vanilla users, as I explained on my previous post. Is Square Enix ok with that?

Since yelling at the plugin developers probably isn't going to work, my only option is to talk about them here.

I'm not afraid of being doxed, and I don't condone the usage of full automation software.

You're deliberately leaving out the fact that several faloop spawners either use: a program that is predominantly used by a group of XIV players to unfairly rank everyone who has participated in a certain duty against each other and a plugin within it that is predominantely used to call out mechanics so that they don't have to learn the fight themselves; or the very same game plugin that the spawner community acts outraged at the mere existence of.
Have you made sure that that warrior in your static isn't using that callout feature so that they don't have to learn the raid as much as you?

It's an arms race in trying to be the first person to the hunt mark and your group not immediately posting hunt marks that are found impacts console/vanilla players unfairly - in your own words - "Since yelling at the plugin developers probably isn't going to work".