How many more times must our Living Dead get griefed?

[LilimoLimomo]

I can't be the only player here that's amazed by how many healers there are in the game, that refuse to heal until you pop your living dead, and then the moment you do, they grief you out of the walking dead proc, making you waste it, and then the party wipes to the dungeon pull because the healer goes right back to not healing you the moment they see their intentional griefing was successful.

In all my years playing FF14, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a healer grief a tank (including DRK's). It's an incredibly rare occurrence, presumably because the vast majority of players just want to complete content with as little conflict as possible. With it being such a rarity, the idea that it's consistently happening to you seems unlikely (unless you are somehow doing something to provoke the ire of your teammates).

Healing is not griefing; healing keeps you alive. Only not healing can be griefing. If you cast Living Dead and your healer heals you, congratulations, you're still alive, which is the entire reason you cast Living Dead in the first place. Unless there's some secret behavior of Living Dead that isn't described in the tooltip, it doesn't matter whether Living Dead keeps you alive or the healer keeps you alive; the result is the same.

It's almost certain that what you're considering "griefing" is just healers seeing that your health went below a certain threshold and switching from DPS to healing in order to keep the tank alive.

[Kabooa]

It is helpful to create a warning macro for the finicky invulns like Living Dead and Superbolide. Expressing intent to use them helps align attentive party members with you.

Something as simple as

/p Superbolide soon<se.5> (auto translate)

can make a world of difference.

[ConantSivrha]

Healing is not griefing; healing keeps you alive. Only not healing can be griefing. If you cast Living Dead and your healer heals you, congratulations, you're still alive, which is the entire reason you cast Living Dead in the first place. Unless there's some secret behavior of Living Dead that isn't described in the tooltip, it doesn't matter whether Living Dead keeps you alive or the healer keeps you alive; the result is the same.

To be as fair as possible, they did say that their initial buff from Living Dead wears off without changing to Walking Dead, because of healing, and then they die. I still don’t agree with their conclusion that “999 out of every 1,000” healers is griefing them intentionally because they want Dark Knight mains to suffer, but just getting healed out of Living Dead and ultimately surviving isn’t the scenario they’re claiming to experience.

[Lannybaby]

This has happened to me 3 times since the release of DT, and one of those times I was a dps. I don't mind if the healer is spamming holy/AoW, or whatever braindead dps button they want, so long as they don't let the tank die. They're green dps, I get it, but I wish they wouldn't forget the "green" part.

[Dogempire]

I don't ever even notice that the DRK pops LD unless they use a macro to announce so, too busy either looking at their health or spamming the 1 button dps rotation and spacing out my cooldowns.

Super easy to not see the one Living Dead icon when there's 20 other buff icons next to their name, and I would say it's just moreso a fundamental flaw with LD more than anything that the healer can prevent you from popping it.

I'd say if you want to make sure you can get your LD off, use a macro with a sound effect like <SE.6> or something that way the healer knows to not heal you so you can trigger the effect.

[Somnolence]

Playing DRK in dungeons is griefing already

[Naychan]

I can't be the only player here that's amazed by how many healers there are in the game, that refuse to heal until you pop your living dead, and then the moment you do, they grief you out of the walking dead proc, making you waste it, and then the party wipes to the dungeon pull because the healer goes right back to not healing you the moment they see their intentional griefing was successful.

The only 2 solutions we could possible get are:
- More self sustain in the job kit
- A debuff during Living Dead that prevent healing from outside sources until Walking Dead procs

I would personally prefer the former so that we don't need to pop the invuln in the first place, but wouldn't be opposed to the latter.

Either way, I'm curious how many more times our Living Dead must be griefed before SE finally steps in and tells these healers enough is enough.

It’s a bad ability, all of them that reduce you to 1hp cause a knee jerk reaction in most healers. Unless you call it out and I mean spam the chat most healers will think they missed something and you took a ton of damage. Their reaction will be to freak and then try to heal you to full. There MIGHT be a few jerks out there but 99% of us are not looking to grief you. If thats was the case we would jump off the edge and rescue you.

[Alice_Rivers]

I think LD automatically places itself at the top of the buff list so that it's visible in the party list regardless of how many buffs the DRK has, if not then it should. I do find it hard to believe that many people are griefing you though... I'm sure there are a lot of healers who are ignorant of tank mechanics and one the first recommendations I give to new healers after they get their basics down is "Go watch a play guide or two for each of the tanks so you understand how they work" specifically to avoid these sorts of issues. That said, even with three years of healing under my belt now, I still sometimes clip people's LDs with a benediction or synastry when one of us has bad timing, I get it with superbolide too which is even more frustrating. But more often than not when I see an LD I stop healing entirely and keep an eye on HP and the timer with fingers on a major heal/combo to pull the DRK out when they hit two seconds or so.

To your claim that the basic requirement of a tank is that they heal themselves, no. Just no. That's WARs thing and we don't need four WARs making the entire healing profession obsolete. The basic requirement of a tank is to mitigate damage, if they can patch themselves up a little here and there so much the better. It should be the healer's job to heal and if tanks had less self-healing and enemies did more damage to justify tank mits as they are then healers would be forced to do their job. That's what you should be demanding, giving tanks more self-heals only gives healers LESS reason to do their own job and makes the situation worse for everyone, also consider the following: Good tanks make complacent healers, complacent healers make good tanks. Bad tanks make good healers, good healers make bad tanks.

[PyurBlue]

It is helpful to create a warning macro for the finicky invulns like Living Dead and Superbolide. Expressing intent to use them helps align attentive party members with you.

Something as simple as

/p Superbolide soon<se.5> (auto translate)

can make a world of difference.

This is the solution. Besides Hallowed Ground all of the invulns require some amount of coordination between tank and healer. Especially when tanks have high healing for some reason. In general you don't want to heal a tank unless they're lower on the HP side to prevent overheal and the healing threshold gets pushed even lower if tanks can heal significant amounts of HP instantly. Tanks should flat out not have large heals.

Many players also don't know how to use invulns. A significant portion of the playerbase views them as emergency buttons that only get used when things go wrong. I feel like the players with this mindset also don't realize how strong healers are. They will see their HP fall below 50% and panic while the healer is letting that happen to get meaningful heals out of Essential Dignity of Excogitation. The panicing tank uses invuln and then the healer has to stop the healing they already planned to do, which might not even be possible (Excog, regens already on the tank). Planning to use invluns ahead of time and announcing that intent can sometimes prevent all of this from happening.

[LilimoLimomo]

To be as fair as possible, they did say that their initial buff from Living Dead wears off without changing to Walking Dead, because of healing, and then they die. I still don’t agree with their conclusion that “999 out of every 1,000” healers is griefing them intentionally because they want Dark Knight mains to suffer, but just getting healed out of Living Dead and ultimately surviving isn’t the scenario they’re claiming to experience.

I wanted my response to this thread to be constructive and in good faith, so I read through OP's multiple posts a few times before consolidating my reply. Weirdly enough, the way they presented the issue seemed to communicate that it was healing through Living Dead that was the griefing, and that them dying was something that happened after the griefing:

they grief you out of the walking dead proc, making you waste it, and then the party wipes to the dungeon pull because the healer goes right back to not healing you the moment they see their intentional griefing was successful

This was emphasized by this odd request, which literally does the opposite of keeping them alive:

- A debuff during Living Dead that prevent healing from outside sources until Walking Dead procs

So that's why I replied the way I did, because that's where OP's focus seemed to be and I wanted to engage with that. (Plus I figured that my re-treading the ground you had already covered would just make my post less succinct and more unfocused, rendering it to be an even less readable essay than it already was.)