How many more times must our Living Dead get griefed?

[Wildheaven182]

I think to be fair, there's just no way to know the mechanic of another class if you dont play it. I actually didnt know until a couple months ago. But i played arr and stopped and came back for ew. I had no prior experience with dark knights.
So i did stop using cc like holy and damage reductions when i saw a dark knight shield turn on, end expect it in the first pull so they can break it.

Honestly too, healers are so damn bored we're just desperate to heal any little damage you have for something to do and use all out dmg reductions on cooldown just to have a button to press other than glare.

I dont really know an easy way to fix it though for healers who dont know how dark knights work.
Probably, if the darkest night also caused you to lose all damage mitigation buffs effects temporarily until it is gone, and always had its shield before any other shielding on you.

[Wildheaven182]

Huhhh... i didnt know about living dead. Ill have to look out for that. I dont know if theres a way to make it more intuitive without making it too similar to superbolide though. Maybe yeah just ignore outside healing. But also so healers dont panic and waste everything, have it grey out their abilities when targeting you during living dead so healing spells have a "invalid target" type of thing.

[GoatOfWar]

Play Warrior, that is the only tank that matters.

[Crafoutis]

DRK's are a public service to give the bored healers something to heal.

We WAR's appreciate your service in acting as a pacifier for all of the crying healers of the forums. Please, continue to be made of paper. We WAR's will continue to receive no changes like in 7.05, because we're perfect and nothing needs to change.

But you are the true heroes, making healers feel useful.

[LilimoLimomo]

I can't be the only player here that's amazed by how many healers there are in the game, that refuse to heal until you pop your living dead, and then the moment you do, they grief you out of the walking dead proc, making you waste it, and then the party wipes to the dungeon pull because the healer goes right back to not healing you the moment they see their intentional griefing was successful.

In all my years playing FF14, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a healer grief a tank (including DRK's). It's an incredibly rare occurrence, presumably because the vast majority of players just want to complete content with as little conflict as possible. With it being such a rarity, the idea that it's consistently happening to you seems unlikely (unless you are somehow doing something to provoke the ire of your teammates).

Healing is not griefing; healing keeps you alive. Only not healing can be griefing. If you cast Living Dead and your healer heals you, congratulations, you're still alive, which is the entire reason you cast Living Dead in the first place. Unless there's some secret behavior of Living Dead that isn't described in the tooltip, it doesn't matter whether Living Dead keeps you alive or the healer keeps you alive; the result is the same.

It's almost certain that what you're considering "griefing" is just healers seeing that your health went below a certain threshold and switching from DPS to healing in order to keep the tank alive.

[ConantSivrha]

Healing is not griefing; healing keeps you alive. Only not healing can be griefing. If you cast Living Dead and your healer heals you, congratulations, you're still alive, which is the entire reason you cast Living Dead in the first place. Unless there's some secret behavior of Living Dead that isn't described in the tooltip, it doesn't matter whether Living Dead keeps you alive or the healer keeps you alive; the result is the same.

To be as fair as possible, they did say that their initial buff from Living Dead wears off without changing to Walking Dead, because of healing, and then they die. I still don’t agree with their conclusion that “999 out of every 1,000” healers is griefing them intentionally because they want Dark Knight mains to suffer, but just getting healed out of Living Dead and ultimately surviving isn’t the scenario they’re claiming to experience.

[AnjouMaaka]

In all my years playing FF14, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a healer grief a tank (including DRK's). It's an incredibly rare occurrence, presumably because the vast majority of players just want to complete content with as little conflict as possible. With it being such a rarity, the idea that it's consistently happening to you seems unlikely (unless you are somehow doing something to provoke the ire of your teammates).

Healing is not griefing; healing keeps you alive. Only not healing can be griefing. If you cast Living Dead and your healer heals you, congratulations, you're still alive, which is the entire reason you cast Living Dead in the first place. Unless there's some secret behavior of Living Dead that isn't described in the tooltip, it doesn't matter whether Living Dead keeps you alive or the healer keeps you alive; the result is the same.

It's almost certain that what you're considering "griefing" is just healers seeing that your health went below a certain threshold and switching from DPS to healing in order to keep the tank alive.

You are so wrong with this comment. This happens every single time I pop living dead, they go out of their way to ensure the invuln is wasted and then the moment they've seen that their griefing tactics are successful, they stop healing, and I get torn through like paper because they blew everything they had on making me waste my living dead, and I have no more mitigations to pop at this point. And I am not doing anything to provoke this behavior out of them. I don't even type in the in-game chat anymore because of how offended players get over the smallest things. So no, you have no idea how often this happens and as I stated before, I can't be the only one having this experience. I wouldn't be here with valid complaints about it if it wasn't unprovoked behavior.

[LilimoLimomo]

You are so wrong with this comment. This happens every single time I pop living dead, they go out of their way to ensure the invuln is wasted and then the moment they've seen that their griefing tactics are successful, they stop healing, and I get torn through like paper because they blew everything they had on making me waste my living dead, and I have no more mitigations to pop at this point. And I am not doing anything to provoke this behavior out of them. I don't even type in the in-game chat anymore because of how offended players get over the smallest things. So no, you have no idea how often this happens and as I stated before, I can't be the only one having this experience. I wouldn't be here with valid complaints about it if it wasn't unprovoked behavior.

I mean, I honestly don't know what to say. In all my time playing as a DRK I can't remember a single time when the healer has just let me die. I've never even felt like I needed to use Living Dead* on anything, including double-pulls. I'm sure I've wiped, but nothing about those times made me feel like it occurred out of malice rather than just "nobody's perfect", especially because yeah, DRK is a bit squishy so it can be trickier for a healer to keep up. And when I've run auto-matched content with DRK's, I'm similarly not seeing anything that seems out of the ordinary.

Taking your experiences at your word, my best attempt at fitting both of our narratives into a cohesive singular reality is to wonder if there's some kind of meaningful cultural difference between the Primal and Aether datacenters. Maybe on Primal, lots of people actively hate DRK's, while on Aether that's just not a thing? Or maybe healers are significantly worse on Primal? My brain says that both of these possibilities are unlikely, but I have to admit that unlikely isn't the same as impossible.


*I've never liked using Living Dead because of how risky it was back in the day, and even though I know it's more reliable now, old habits die hard.

[Kabooa]

It is helpful to create a warning macro for the finicky invulns like Living Dead and Superbolide. Expressing intent to use them helps align attentive party members with you.

Something as simple as

/p Superbolide soon<se.5> (auto translate)

can make a world of difference.

[PyurBlue]

It is helpful to create a warning macro for the finicky invulns like Living Dead and Superbolide. Expressing intent to use them helps align attentive party members with you.

Something as simple as

/p Superbolide soon<se.5> (auto translate)

can make a world of difference.

This is the solution. Besides Hallowed Ground all of the invulns require some amount of coordination between tank and healer. Especially when tanks have high healing for some reason. In general you don't want to heal a tank unless they're lower on the HP side to prevent overheal and the healing threshold gets pushed even lower if tanks can heal significant amounts of HP instantly. Tanks should flat out not have large heals.

Many players also don't know how to use invulns. A significant portion of the playerbase views them as emergency buttons that only get used when things go wrong. I feel like the players with this mindset also don't realize how strong healers are. They will see their HP fall below 50% and panic while the healer is letting that happen to get meaningful heals out of Essential Dignity of Excogitation. The panicing tank uses invuln and then the healer has to stop the healing they already planned to do, which might not even be possible (Excog, regens already on the tank). Planning to use invluns ahead of time and announcing that intent can sometimes prevent all of this from happening.