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  1. #1
    Player
    Fawkes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,690
    Character
    Fawkes Macleod
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitelancer View Post
    I think the difference was explained by Otis. His soul was transferred to his robot body, not just his memories. The Endless don't have souls.
    Why would they need souls if they don't have souls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu View Post
    Then we have to go really esotheric by asking "what is a soul?"
    I think we can discus it till the next calamity happens
    Well, in the game reincarnation is a fact and souls are real, and it's something that's been coming up in the story quite a bit, so maybe they should have a definitive explanation of how it all works in the game, or at least have one in mind while writing the story.

    Like when Y'shtola describes what she sees when a Blasphemy happens she says like 'their aether didn't return to the aetherial sea, it was snuffed out' or something. Making it sound like turning into a Blasphemy was a sort of "soul death". But then in the role quests it shows Blasphemies retaining aspects of the person they were and gives the impression that they're passing on when you kill them. So they're just borrowing souls, not snuffing them out? The same question exists for Solution 9/Living Memory. Are they "using" souls or "borrowing" them? If I'm supposed to feel things in the hours upon hours of MSQ that deals mainly with this subject I feel like I need to know what's even happening. The Endless require souls but they don't have souls? Sphene acts like Endless are superior to robot Otis but then it seems like he's actually a person with a soul in a robot body and the Endless are just lifeless holograms with people's memories?
    (9)

  2. #2
    Player
    Nitelancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    147
    Character
    Ponder Nite
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Why would they need souls if they don't have souls??
    Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. I was explaining that the difference between something being alive and not alive is having a soul. The Endless do not have souls, therefore, they are not alive and we did not kill them as the OP suggested.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    PyurBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    708
    Character
    Saphir Amariyo
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 40
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Well, in the game reincarnation is a fact and souls are real, and it's something that's been coming up in the story quite a bit, so maybe they should have a definitive explanation of how it all works in the game, or at least have one in mind while writing the story.
    This is why there is so much discussion on the topic. The game says Endless aren't alive or people or whatever. You can take the game at its word but if you don't it's a huge ambiguous question and this is why people are divided.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElHeggunte View Post
    If you made a perfect copy of your memories and then transferred them into a simulated body, do you believe that would make two of you? Or would you think of the simulation as nothing more than a convincing copy that speaks and acts like you because you have the same memories? Now what if the real you suddenly died and the copy survived? Would you consider the copy to be the real you or would it still be a copy? What if the copy were made after the real you died?
    What happened to the soul? Endless could have just been AI and then it would have been an open and shut case, but they're not.


    Because that’s all the Endless are—simulations of people who are long dead. They are simulacrums of people who had their memories harvested and they are powered by captured souls. Hardly what I would call “alive”.
    They don't appear very different from natural in-story reincarnation.
    (3)
    Last edited by PyurBlue; 07-23-2024 at 04:35 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Somnolence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    418
    Character
    Ixa X'phele
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Why would they need souls if they don't have souls?
    Plot hole IMO. Either soul aether is needed for Endless and therefore they do use souls and therefore are alive or they are soulless simulations and ordinary aether can work so there was no reason to turn them off as finding alternative power sources was possible.
    (9)