Omicrons and The Endless (Do Endless Dream of Electric Sheep?)

[Vyrerus]

So, as many know by now, the final areas for Dawntrail introduce the portion of Alexandrians known as, "The Endless."

These are Alexandrian people who died of old age or many many violent deaths, who then had the memory portion of their soul enshrined in a database wonder land that then projects it into a controlled environment to continue living on in bliss, analyzing the entirety of their lives and projecting them as they were when they were at their happiest moments.

The first Endless we are introduced to is actually Sphene, who is a computerized entity of the Queen of Alexandria's memories from before their shard was destroyed in the Lightning Calamity, 9000 years prior to the game's events, by the forces of Lindblum who were inciting said Calamity using their Lightning based Weapon of Mass Destruction.

The Endless as they are can enjoy things, form new memories, and interact with the living. They also know that they no longer have bodies.

The second Endless we are introduced to is actually Erenville's Mother, Cahciua. As part of a weak plot twist, she was dead all along after the 30 year time dilation, became an Alexandrian citizen, and was uploaded into Living Memory. From there, she aimed to bring Alexandria and Living Memory down by traveling back into a robot body which she lived in for an indeterminate amount of time assisting in leading The Resistance.

Given this set of events means that any Endless could leave Living Memory in a robot body.

Given the Omicron civilization is a group of lifeforms entirely composed of robot bodies, this means that The Endless are comparable to them, and that The Endless are very much alive and are not just, "memory ghosts."

Living in the database was still living, and we snuffed them out.

[Nitelancer]

I think the difference was explained by Otis. His soul was transferred to his robot body, not just his memories. The Endless don't have souls. I am not sure if the Omicron have souls or not. If they do, then they aren't the same as the Endless.

[MikkoAkure]

There's a few things you're missing.

The shard Alexandria isn't necessarily the one lost in the Calamity of Lightning because according to the Alexandrians the events around Sphene were 400 years ago. Also, the Calamity of Lightning shard was absorbed back into the Source yet we visit Alexandria's shard in the MSQ. Considering we've already been through all the elements already for calamities it stands to reason that they have to loop back around again.

Cachiua did not leave Living Memory in a robot body. She controlled the robot from Living Memory where she said she currently was. Nostalgia does the same thing in reverse later on. They're just remotely controlled, they're not in the bodies.

The Endless are memories anchored to a server. I really struggle to understand why everyone is trying so hard to advocate for people who, by your own admission, are dead. They had lives and they should be returned to the lifestream as nature intended. Being randomly chosen to walk around as Sphene's personal zoo animal in a park that is falling apart while your every need is catered to you is not living and turning them off was a mercy.

I really don't think you're paying as close attention to the story as you claimed to be.

[Caitlinzulu]

Then we have to go really esotheric by asking "what is a soul?"
I think we can discus it till the next calamity happens

[SongOfTheWind]

I think the difference was explained by Otis. His soul was transferred to his robot body, not just his memories. The Endless don't have souls. I am not sure if the Omicron have souls or not. If they do, then they aren't the same as the Endless.

The concept of a soul was never consistent or explained in ff14, so this explanation doesn’t clear up things at all, really. Unless you can explain what a ‘soul’ is in the lore and what a difference it makes?

[Chiru_Kai]

Still a red herring.
There is no moral dilemma here.
Doesn't matter if they're alive, dead, or something in between, or something else entirely.

They needed the souls of living beings, outside of their culture, to sustain Living Memory.
This would be done against the will of those people. And once people inside Living Memory, as well as in S9 and Heritage Found find out, they are appalled and all agree that Living Memory has to go if it has to exist in such a manner.


IRL, this comes down to "bodily autonomy". You can not force me to donate - for example: blood -, even if it would mean the difference between someone dying, or surviving.
It goes against all ethical standards. And if we can't even do this IRL with mere blood, then "souls" is beyond unethical.

[Kaurhz]

Uh OK.

But didn't Sphene still want to harvest all of our souls, and the souls of countless people on other stars?

[SillyCrow]

Omicrons likely have a soul or something similar, otherwise they should not appear at the End of the Universe at all.

[Nitelancer]

The concept of a soul was never consistent or explained in ff14, so this explanation doesn’t clear up things at all, really. Unless you can explain what a ‘soul’ is in the lore and what a difference it makes?

I don't know. I just know that in this MSQ they explained that people's memories are separated from their souls to create the endless, so memories and souls are two separate things. But what makes a person alive? Is it their memories or their soul? I say the soul, whatever that is. I think we are supposed to be a fragment of one of the ancient's soul.

"Azem [ˈæz.ɛm] is a character from Final Fantasy XIV. The forgotten fourteenth seat of Amaurot's Convocation of Fourteen before the sundering of Etheirys, they were associated with the sun. They were an adventurer in spirit, yearning to explore the world to discover its wonders and help its denizens. "Azem" is a title rather than a given name, a position otherwise known as the Traveler, and tasked with exploring the larger world of Etheirys and becoming intimate with its myriad peoples and cultures...This greater part of their soul would eventually be reincarnated as the Warrior of Light..."

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Azem

[Fawkes]

I think the difference was explained by Otis. His soul was transferred to his robot body, not just his memories. The Endless don't have souls.

Why would they need souls if they don't have souls?

Then we have to go really esotheric by asking "what is a soul?"
I think we can discus it till the next calamity happens

Well, in the game reincarnation is a fact and souls are real, and it's something that's been coming up in the story quite a bit, so maybe they should have a definitive explanation of how it all works in the game, or at least have one in mind while writing the story.

Like when Y'shtola describes what she sees when a Blasphemy happens she says like 'their aether didn't return to the aetherial sea, it was snuffed out' or something. Making it sound like turning into a Blasphemy was a sort of "soul death". But then in the role quests it shows Blasphemies retaining aspects of the person they were and gives the impression that they're passing on when you kill them. So they're just borrowing souls, not snuffing them out? The same question exists for Solution 9/Living Memory. Are they "using" souls or "borrowing" them? If I'm supposed to feel things in the hours upon hours of MSQ that deals mainly with this subject I feel like I need to know what's even happening. The Endless require souls but they don't have souls? Sphene acts like Endless are superior to robot Otis but then it seems like he's actually a person with a soul in a robot body and the Endless are just lifeless holograms with people's memories?