Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[CKNovel]

It's a reason, I suppose, I don't find it particularly persuasive. Designing content to be steamrolled is exactly what brought us to the point where we have a dozen or more threads above difficulty with dozens of people insulting eachother. It's also the reason why the divide between casual players and savage raiders is so significant with midcore unserved. It should be entirely possible to maintain a difficulty curve and the content be balanced.

Removing bloodwhetting was an extreme example to show that it wouldn't fix the actual issue. The point is that even without Bloodwhetting, even if it never existed, people would complain.
If you nerf it, people will complain regardless, because the problem are exactly the dungeons very low damage.

I strongly believe it would be better to have dungeons doing more party wide damage so that both tank and healer can use and learn about their tools.
Even without Bloodwhetting, dungeons and normal mode do a terrible jobs at teaching the game. In fact, nothing teaches you about the game, your best bet are guides...

If you nerf Bloodwhetting, you still suffers the mentionned problems:
-Dungeon damages remains underbalanced and good tanks will still take minimal damage, people's complaints will move from Warrior to Paladin.
-Holy trinity responsibility will still be extremely low, healer won't make use of their full use of their healing kit and will DPS more than heal.
-Dungeons won't fill their role as "tutorial" and won't teach healers or tanks anything.

[Japaneseschoolgirl]

Cknovel. Homie your 100% correct.

[aiqa]

Dungeons and normal are the easy, story modes. They're designed to be steamrolled by anyone.
Asking to balance jobs for the easy mode is counter productive as you'll impact the job performance on all content.

Savage and ultimates are exactly the modes where balance matters the most. If you nerf Warrior because you find them too strong in the easy more, they'll be weaker because some people are complaining about dungeons.
Imagine if you nerf something because it's too strong in the tutorial, it doesn't makes sense, correct?

And let's be real, if Warrior had bloodwhetting removed, people would then move on to whine about other tools. Even if tank were nerfed, healers wouldn't make use of their full kit in dungeons.
Dungeons are the problem, they don't deal enough damage and all damages are mostly focused on the tank. Fix them and you'll see less complaints about WAR.

WAR has by far the highest sutain of all tanks in any content, dungeons, raids, trials, deep dungeons, etc. The most suggested change to reign in WAR selfhealing wouldn't even affect bossfights much (remove target scaling on bloodwhetting). And lowering its selfhealing to the level of other tanks wouldn't destroy the job.

There is no way to fix dungeons to fix tank balance, WAR in its current form will always be a problems. WAR has better sustain in the only part of dungeons that can be optional (large mob pulls) than a DRK and WHM combined. If dungeons are a challenge to WAR+healer, no other tank would be able to survive. And it's also completely unreasonable a WAR gets levels of ogcd healing on large mob pulls, multiples of what a healer jobs can maintain.

[CKNovel]

WAR has by far the highest sutain of all tanks in any content, dungeons, raids, trials, deep dungeons, etc. The most suggested change to reign in WAR selfhealing wouldn't even affect bossfights much (remove target scaling on bloodwhetting). And lowering its selfhealing to the level of other tanks wouldn't destroy the job.

There is no way to fix dungeons to fix tank balance, WAR in its current form will always be a problems. WAR has better sustain in the only part of dungeons that can be optional (large mob pulls) than a DRK and WHM combined. If dungeons are a challenge to WAR+healer, no other tank would be able to survive. And it's also completely unreasonable a WAR gets levels of ogcd healing on large mob pulls, multiples of what a healer jobs can maintain.

Except in raids, deep dungeons, trials, WAR sustain doesn't comes from Bloodwhetting.
WAR has better sustain but it comes at the hefty price of less mitigation. Warrior only has 3 personal while other tanks have 4. Bloodwhetting also reduces by 10%*2 instead of the classic 15%*2.
Finally, WAR healing on the chart isn't representative of the actual strength, WAR overheals a lot, mostly from Shake it off.

If more damage are inflicted on party members, you hit Healers primary role that tanks can't cover.

[Chrome_Aerial]

i highly agree on alice in the regard that BOTH high end content AND regular content has to be ballanced. NOT everyone plays savages and ultimate. GOOD FOR YOU IF YOU DO. but most people don't and there is no reason why like 70% of the games playerbase shud get screwed over to appease the 30%.

your view on how warrior is "fine" is heavily flawed therefor. your view on warrior is "fine" may be true for extremes or above. but nothing else. (wich mind you is still the majority of the game where warrior is absolutely broken)

and i'll quote: "Get your head out of your holes and play the game for once before talking." as you appearently don't really play much of the majority of the existing content other then high end duties yet have a strong opinion on how a class you play (and most likely main) is fine as is while it is really not.

[Ramiee]

Story mode teaches behaviour you take into hard mode when you make the change. Warrior being an immortal god in story mode then transforming into someone who relies on healers in hard content is bad game design.
The trinity should be present in all stages of the game especially level fucking 90-100 this is hundreds of hours into the game, every job should be reliant on each others role by this point in the game.

[Kalaam]

Honestly more party wide damage from dungeon pulls could be neat, have some be interruptable by tanks and ranged, stuff like that. Trashpull to introduce future dungeon boss mechanics are nice

[Ramiee]

Honestly more party wide damage from dungeon pulls could be neat, have some be interruptable by tanks and ranged, stuff like that. Trashpull to introduce future dungeon boss mechanics are nice

It's kind of happened in the two expert dungeons. Both have had healing checks that damage the entire party, but this has been only one pack in both dungeons. Really trash pulls need to be more engaging whether it includes environmental obstacles or aoe damage, if dungeons are going to forever be straight lines then make the trash packs far more engaging.

[Alice_Rivers]

Ah yes, those two. At low ilvl and unexpected those two were quite painful. I suppose a fix would be percentage based damage and I could absolutely go for dps mechanics, dps jobs are a bit underserved in dungeons, something more than just doing one's rotation and dodging AoEs would make the jobs more interesting.

[Terhix]

There is nothing to say here that wasn't already said, so I'll just sign under everyone else who suggested to cap BW/Raw Intuition healing to 1 heal per GCD. It's such an obvious fix that it's honestly quite baffling it wasn't implemented through the entirety of Endwalker.