Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Shurrikhan]

It's really annoying when people keep arguing that being required because you gimped tank healing is the same as fun. It's not. Paper tanks are not fun. Healing is not fun.

Making tanks suck won't fix healing.

???

Merely being "reined in to balance", let alone just "not immortal", does not necessitate being "paper".

Not having 7 seconds straight of near-Benediction spam per 25s, and instead again seeing healing reward from your oGCD, AA, and reflective damage, does not make tanking suck.

To your broader point, yes, a tank that seemingly lacks sufficient power to have agency or any control over its survival would be bad, but that is worlds apart from what was requested. Few have even suggested a return to Endwalker levels of healing, which was far from paper anyways, let alone Stormblood or Heavenward. And even those iterations of tanks left them far from paper.

For my part, I felt most engaged when tanking was legitimately difficult, such as when playing Protection Warriors at its squishiest, because there was nonetheless a ton of agency by which to survive and perform our jobs. How? Because passive and/or easy capacity is only a small part of agency.

[ApolloGenX]

As far as I'm concerned it is not a necessity that tanks must suck in order for healing to be needed, or is it your opinion that tanks needing healer is by definition sucking? As someone said somewhere and I agreed "tanks should be hard to kill" but not impossible. I've done immortality in Star Trek Online in the highest level content that game had and yeah, it was fun for a while but then it got old and boring, it's a big part of why I don't play the game anymore despite being a massive (TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT era) Trek fan.

If we intend to keep the healing role, no job should be immortal, it's antithetical to having healers.

If they intend to keep healing, then I would suggest they get more creative then heal/shield for x.

It's not like the abilities wars have couldnt be given to healers to use on tanks. The complete lack of creativity for healers is why healing sicks...not because of tanks.

[Alice_Rivers]

Healing sucks fundamentally because healing isn't required in some 70+% of content, if I spend entire duties not healing I might as well go play a DPS. Now, why am I not healing? Healing isn't required. Why is healing not required? Could it have something to do with the principle recipient of healing overhealing themselves already? It just might. I don't have this problem with DRK, more often that not when I pull a DRK in roulettes I get to heal and let me tell you what, that is the highlight of my playtime - I actually get to do what I play healer to do - I get to HEAL.

You know what else fixes the one button monotony? Healing. We have so many healing buttons that if we had to use them and if our "dps filler" were actually filler that'd be great, gone would be the one button monotony people complain about. Further, while I'm thinking about the subject, there's no point in being creative about healing skills when there's no use for them.

[ApolloGenX]

Fun heals are fun.

You can heal people besides tanks.

[Valmaxian]

One of the most commonly run content. You're right that WAR is only overpowered in a specific situation, yet that hasn't stopped it from becoming a source of annoyance to players. Seeing a Warrior tank when queueing into a dungeon is pure disappointment. Fixing this won't make healers perfect, but it will make them better.


At that point you might as well remove TB's and party defense abilities. Mitigation for self and party is what sets the tank role apart. Without that there would be no reason to play it.

Personally, I LOVE getting Warrior tanks when I’m healing. It allows me to DPS more, killing mobs faster. I roll my eyes when I get Gunbreakers, especially when they don’t know how to use Superbolide properly.

And as a LONG time healer main who’s only recently started tanking seriously, I relish playing Warrior - it’s actually become my favorite melee job in the game, and Bloodwhetting is party of that experience.

[ApolloGenX]

There was a great discussion years ago in WoW about whether a button is fun to push had nothing to do with healing amount.

Example was Circle of healing was a brainless smart heal that was always the best option. Powerful, but not fun.

Stop trying to gimp others to force them to bring you along and calling it fun.

That isn't fun. Current healing isn't fun.

Holy used to be fun.

[Shurrikhan]

There was a great discussion years ago in WoW about whether a button is fun to push had nothing to do with healing amount.

Example was Circle of healing was a brainless smart heal that was always the best option. Powerful, but not fun.

Stop trying to [nerf Bloodwhetting back to when it was less ridiculous but better involved and engaged with the rest of one's kit use] to force them to bring [each role, in a intentionally trinity-based game] along and calling it fun.

The irony has to be intentional, right?

[ApolloGenX]

The irony has to be intentional, right?

BW is powerful but not always the best choice...and you can't spam it like you could CoH.

Not sure if you ate just trying to be picky or just joking around.

[Shurrikhan]

BW is powerful but not always the best choice...and you can't spam it like you could CoH.

Circle of Healing was a (frequently MP-intensive) CD. It wasn't spammable.

Perhaps you're thinking of Prayer of Healing, the spammable one? But then, that would have generally been the worse choice, the fallback akin to Medica I, rather than something akin to Indomitability/Rapture.

Regardless, though, BW is always the best choice and an overwhelming source of WAR's contribution in the content being discussed. But, as you noted about CoH, that doesn't make it fun. Rather, its excess in strength simply makes other kits (including the remainder of Warrior's own) that bit less fun.

[ApolloGenX]

Circle of Healing was a (frequently MP-intensive) CD. It wasn't spammable.

Perhaps you're thinking of Prayer of Healing, the spammable one? But then, that would have generally been the worse choice, the fallback akin to Medica I, rather than something akin to Indomitability/Rapture.

Regardless, though, BW is always the best choice and an overwhelming source of WAR's contribution in the content being discussed. But, as you noted about CoH, that doesn't make it fun. Rather, its excess in strength simply makes other kits (including the remainder of Warrior's own) that bit less fun.

No, lol. CoH was an instant and spammable when it was introduced...so was wild growth. They added the cd later.

Loved mending, though...the pinball heal. It was almost spammable...they nerved it though with a cd, too. /sadface