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  1. #51
    Player
    jdtuggey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    123
    Character
    Tsuki Hori
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TDawnstar View Post
    That's a fact
    However, sometimes I do wonder whether they actually drew any lessons from playing it
    watch 1.0 footage lol
    (0)

  2. #52
    Player
    Jinglypockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Kisori Petrova
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by jdtuggey View Post
    I also said most people will just look up optimal solutions.
    I don't feel it would make any difference on my enjoyment on ffxiv if they implemented this either.
    I agree -- not in the way most people think about it, at least.

    The benefits of talent trees are:

    -Giving SE more flexibility to add new, fun things to the jobs without contributing to button bloat.
    -Keeping the playstyle of each spec feeling fresh, even if every player is a meta slave; when the meta shifts, it forces people to adapt to the new builds and the playstyles associated with those builds, which keeps things fresh.

    I don't know that either of those things are worth the opportunity cost or balance problems caused by talent trees.

    Concerning looking to other games, I have nothing against that. ARR is basically yoshi p sending all his staff to play wow so they understand how modern MMO's work lol.
    But there's also reasons why we play FFXIV in particular and not other games. (not saying no one that plays FFXIV plays other MMO's with this lol, before someone calls it out)
    The ultimate end of "We should take things from other MMO's" is all MMO's being the same.
    So perhaps best to be careful with this.
    I've gone back and forth between FFXIV and WoW quite a bit. I like FFXIV better overall, but every time I switch I find myself saying, "Why can't I just combine the best parts of both games?"

    WoW has Mythic+, more varied class design with less homogenization and more utility, and more varied encounter design that benefits from that utility.
    FFXIV has everything else. If you could add those three things to FFXIV, FFXIV would be perfect.

    Oh, and WoW's responsiveness, which, thanks to the busted engine, I unfortunately don't see FFXIV ever being able to replicate even if they tried.

    For me, talent trees are very, very low on the list of things to steal from other games.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jinglypockets; 07-28-2024 at 04:05 AM.

  3. #53
    Player
    Jinglypockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Kisori Petrova
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TDawnstar View Post
    That's a fact
    However, sometimes I do wonder whether they actually drew any lessons from playing it
    From what I understand, 1.0 played more like Everquest.

    Which, having played a lot of Everquest when it was new: Gross.
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    jdtuggey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    123
    Character
    Tsuki Hori
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinglypockets View Post
    Which, having played a lot of Everquest when it was new: Gross.
    I played during shadows of luclin. It was amazing at the time, but by modern standards lol... oof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinglypockets View Post
    Oh, and WoW's responsiveness, which, thanks to the busted engine, I unfortunately don't see FFXIV ever being able to replicate even if they tried.
    I don't think it's possible to even walk that back at this point. We'd need an entirely new game. I don't know when they'll go like "Okay, we've done enough with FFXIV, maybe time to move on".
    11-14... maybe 17 will be a mmo ? (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
    Games have changed engines before, but all of the content is designed around how poorly the game/servers work together in this particular case.
    And there's a lot of it. People are used to the silly things this causes at this point too, and losing these habits would probably create friction, so there's barriers to even trying.
    (0)
    Last edited by jdtuggey; 07-28-2024 at 04:43 AM.

  5. #55
    Player
    Jaxtaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    109
    Character
    Jaxtaro Scaramucci
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinglypockets View Post
    From what I understand, 1.0 played more like Everquest.

    Which, having played a lot of Everquest when it was new: Gross.
    You haven't lived until you experienced the joys of the phrase "TRAIN TO ZONE".
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player
    Jinglypockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Kisori Petrova
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxtaro View Post
    You haven't lived until you experienced the joys of the phrase "TRAIN TO ZONE".
    You haven't lived until you've experienced the joys of causing that train.
    (1)

  7. #57
    Player
    Jaxtaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    109
    Character
    Jaxtaro Scaramucci
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinglypockets View Post
    You haven't lived until you've experienced the joys of causing that train.
    The old school Unrest, Blackburrow, and Paw trains, Mistmoore and Guk trains, they were legendary.

    Never could figure out why people in Oasis would train spectres to the docks though
    (0)

  8. #58
    Player
    royox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Royox Burrfoot
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrusiel View Post
    DT difficulty is good.
    Harder than ARR, yes, but who wants to run sastasha over and over again ?
    The ARR dungeons during the ARR era were harder than all the DT dungeons. Like, by far. Can't say the same of the trials because they have improved A LOT since ARR. But the dungeons? Almost every dungeon had "everybody dies" moments, shenanigans, dps checks, calculated pulls, unpredictable mechanics and a lot of mechanics that were way harder than the ones in DT. My gosh Diavolos and his damn doors, Braylox and the poison dragon autohealing, the one with the gigantic Tomberi that would oneshot the people when catching them...i really don't get the difficulty complains.
    (2)

  9. #59
    Player
    AlexaAura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Posts
    18
    Character
    Aster Regulus
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Personally I don't know why everyone likes these dungeons. The smaller enemies still require 0 mechanics or thought to clear and there is no interaction with the environment at all. These are just glorified hallways with 3 bosses at the end. The only time i've ever seen the dungeons have anything even resembling a mechanic is when the Tonberry chases you in the ARR dungeon, and the waves that push you back in The Swallow's Compass in Stormblood. Why do the dev's hate dungeons so much? They put almost 0 effort into designing them besides the bosses.
    (2)

  10. #60
    Player
    royox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Royox Burrfoot
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexaAura View Post
    Personally I don't know why everyone likes these dungeons. The smaller enemies still require 0 mechanics or thought to clear and there is no interaction with the environment at all. These are just glorified hallways with 3 bosses at the end. The only time i've ever seen the dungeons have anything even resembling a mechanic is when the Tonberry chases you in the ARR dungeon, and the waves that push you back in The Swallow's Compass in Stormblood. Why do the dev's hate dungeons so much? They put almost 0 effort into designing them besides the bosses.
    Because the VN players complained that the leveling roulettes were longer than 10 minutes and they didn't like having to play the game that long. So they dumbed down EVERY SINGLE PIECE of dungeon content since then. My favourite dungeon was the one with the Tomberi chasing.
    (4)

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