Feedback: FIX YOUR NETCODE!

[Shurrikhan]

I opened the link and read the interview, but I am kinda new to this, so not sure what you mean with "clipping" or which section of the interview you referred to (the formatting of the site isn't great so can't blame you there). Could you elaborate a bit as I want to understand the issue better?

In typical XIV parlance, "clipping" refers to potential uptime (the amount of time for which you could be using an action, especially a spell or weaponskill) lost.

One of the most significant reasons for this is that whereas other games compensate your internal skill delays for whatever time is taken to verify server-side that your skill activation is legit, XIV does not. This means your roundtrip ping is added to the time after using a skill for which you cannot use another.

For GCDs, this is mitigated somewhat, but oGCDs are not. Therefore, a low-ping player can potentially triple-weave where a moderate-ping player cannot quite even double-weave without losing uptime.

[Luzzu]

Furthermore, there's an even worse issue when considering the lag between your movement and the server recognizing it. You move a second before the server recognizes it. This means that, even if you dodge the "snapshot", you can still be caught in the snapshot, called "clipping". When mechanics are fast, like the new raids, this can happen a lot more often. It's usually found with high ping, but even Japanese players are having an issue with the new content because of faster and overlapping mechanics.

Any and all design issues with the new content can be fixed with better netcode. The challenge would be seen as fair (improvable with practice) rather than unfair (random and not responsive to skill) with zero change to the fight design itself. Otherwise, changes to design would have to be made to reduce the complexity of mechanics. As a certain other poster said, we have had easy content for "two expansions" (actually longer) because of this. For Dawntrail, the dev team decided to remove their old precautions. The above problems are a result.

You're conflating two separate things. The perceived rise in difficulty isn't because the server's response time to player input is too high - FFXIV has always had this issue. Even a 0.5 second delay is not going to make a difference fundamentally - if you are late to respond to a mechanic, you're going to get hit by it. That's how they all work. The difference in the case of DT content is that enemies will telegraph their attacks in ways we aren't used to seeing. I'm not even sure what design issues you're talking about with the new content, outside of the usual FFXIV snapshotting.

I agree with the sentiment behind this post, I'm just unsure that anyone who is asking for this is in network engineering or does back-end of any kind because if they were, they'd know it's likely a monumental ask that would require rewriting most of the game. If it's at all possible, I would love to see the FFXIV experience improved by having less latency and more responsiveness. It's not a likely prospect though so it might be worth taking the time to understand how to make the most of server ticks and snapshotting. Pretend you're a Time Mage or something

[Urielparadox]

In typical XIV parlance, "clipping" refers to potential uptime (the amount of time for which you could be using an action, especially a spell or weaponskill) lost.

One of the most significant reasons for this is that whereas other games compensate your internal skill delays for whatever time is taken to verify server-side that your skill activation is legit, XIV does not. This means your roundtrip ping is added to the time after using a skill for which you cannot use another.

For GCDs, this is mitigated somewhat, but oGCDs are not. Therefore, a low-ping player can potentially triple-weave where a moderate-ping player cannot quite even double-weave without losing uptime.

There is skill clipping and there is hitbox clipping. They both exist since all races have the same hitbox regardless of size. This is where my confusion over what you were saying because of the context of the rest of the post.
It is 100% impossible to get a triple weave with 0 clip without 3rd party tools. The only people who can triple weave without clipping are people using 3rd party tools. the reason is below.
Every Ogcd is given a minimum amount of time b4 the next one can be triggered essentially giving the netcode time to work and allowing players to plan what they are gunna do based on that information. it is part of the equation to try and create balance amongst dps output so that low ping players aren't putting out more damage, and high ping players aren't being banned from partyfinder.. If you have 0 ping(not feasibly possible), or similitude 0 ping through a 3rd party tool there is enough time to fit 3 in. This is because the intention is for double weaving so this extra time allows for above average ping players to still double weave. It requires a rather high amount of ping to not be able to double weave without clipping. this is made worse with bad ping that takes longer to register the entry late thus preventing your from getting a second weave. They recently changed the way the timer on pots, to allow for double weaving with pots, because previously they had wanted to restrict the pots to taking up a whole window. Something that would be in the way of doing a modern rotation on some jobs. This is not bad net code or unexpected. it is an intentional design to try and create a fair playing field between low and higher ping individuals. I used to play on country internet, and while my ping was awful I could still, just barely double weave without clipping 95% of the time. Dodging mechanics on the other hand was very challenging. This has no relationship to the snapshots of mechanics in the game and weave clipping, except that both them are effected by the players ping. Which exists in every mmo.

This is not to say there isn't an issue with snapshotting in this game, cause there is. it just has nothing to do with skill clipping.

[Shurrikhan]

This is not to say there isn't an issue with snapshotting in this game, cause there is. it just has nothing to do with skill clipping.

Yep, my bad. I had never before heard hitbox "clipping" used at any meaning more than "hitbox overlapped with hurtbox, therefore counting as a hit". It doesn't strictly mean an 'unintuitive" or "unfair" hit taken, just... a hit. When complained of, that's usually from an AoE bearing player or unit moving across another player's hitbox, but at that point the specific term carries no specific use or value; you may as well just say "hit".

I'd had the thread opened for a while before responding and forgot to scroll back up first. My apologies.

Tangent:

That said, for a near-zero ping 2.5s GCD player to be unable to triple weave would mean that the average ICD of the skills used across that global is above 6.2 seconds. Non-movement animations with such high ICDs have been increasingly pruned from the game, pushed towards a more standard 0.5s (+ rtp), so it seems unlikely that a 2.5s player would necessarily need a 3rd party tool to do so. When playing on JP servers, JP friends regularly reported that they could triple-weave (and not merely mudras, which briefly had an especially low ICD) without drifting their GCD whatsoever.

[Urielparadox]

Yep, my bad. I had never before heard hitbox "clipping" used at any meaning more than "hitbox overlapped with hurtbox, therefore counting as a hit". It doesn't strictly mean an 'unintuitive" or "unfair" hit taken, just... a hit. When complained of, that's usually from an AoE bearing player or unit moving across another player's hitbox, but at that point the specific term carries no specific use or value; you may as well just say "hit".

I'd had the thread opened for a while before responding and forgot to scroll back up first. My apologies.

Tangent:

That said, for a near-zero ping 2.5s GCD player to be unable to triple weave would mean that the average ICD of the skills used across that global is above 6.2 seconds. Non-movement animations with such high ICDs have been increasingly pruned from the game, pushed towards a more standard 0.5s (+ rtp), so it seems unlikely that a 2.5s player would necessarily need a 3rd party tool to do so. When playing on JP servers, JP friends regularly reported that they could triple-weave (and not merely mudras, which briefly had an especially low ICD) without drifting their GCD whatsoever.

What I ment by my original statement, is not guarantee consistency/every weave can be triple weaved. which is generally what u want out of a rotation cause u don't wanna risk a drift causing u to miss a skill at a phase change.
In a live letter once upon a time it was stated that everyone under a certain amount of ping should have the same rotation by the games design. It' s been forever I do not remember which live letter. The intentions in the design are to limit it to double weaving. However if they make those restrictions too harsh, it is harder for players with bad ping to double weave. This does leave spare time for triple weaving to be possible on extremely good ping. However. Animation locks are also built into skill, with different skills having different animation locks and as per usual with 14 server tics also come into play. So not every skill combo has the ability to achieve a triple weave under perfect conditions. This could have changed with DT no clue I'm under the assumption it is the same. Even on a certain website that people use to compile fight information, there are very few true non clipping triple weaves recorded, even on the JP servers, because most of them still cause a barely noticeable clip. Anything with excessive non clipping triple weaving is flagged and reviewed. allegedly through testing with various "consistent" pings, it can only be guaranteed with 0 ping/3rd party tool that simulates it. The rest of it is luck and can not be done with 100% guarantee each and every time. So it is possible to do a triple weave successfully if you have amazingly good ping, but not enough to be able to guarantee it will happen each and every time without 3rd party tools to lock it. I think its somewhere around 20-40 to have a chance of a non clipping triple weave.