Questionable ethics - Living Memory

[Bright-Flower]

Only slightly on-topic, but you picked a terrible game for this, sorry.
XIV's story has always touched on dark and morally gray topics.
Even the WoL has been forced to side with "lesser evils" at times (like letting Lolorito get away with a bunch of terrible stuff for the benefit of the Ala Mhigans, or cooperating with Gaius who has a history of conquest, etc etc).
DT being this happy-go-lucky place where all strife is resolved with 10 minutes of talk-no-jutsu and even the cruelest people can magically become good-doers is an exception, not the rule, as far as XIV goes.

The talk no jutsu only really worked on Balool Ja Ja as far as major antagonists go. We still had to kill the giant monster Valigarmanda, and couldnot reason with Zarool Ja or Sphene. Though I do think Bakool went form 'freeing Valigarmanda to get ahead in the contest' to 'good guy' a little too quickly and cleanly, he's the only major antagonist in the expansion this worked for. And Tuliloyol was saved by the nation rallying together and bringing in outside allies to repel the second attack rather than convincing anyone to stand down. It's really only minor obstacles that we peace and friendship our way through other than Bakool who was a persistent antagonist throughout the first four levels.

I do agree with your point about doing morally questionable things though. In SB we sided with actual pirates because they're anti Empire. Pirates who make their living by extorting protection money out of people passing by and doing bad things to them if they refuse. Then we used the Xaela's traditions to drag them into a war they had no investment in until after we won the actual contest and Grynwaht antagonized them by coming into the Steppe to chase US down etc.

[Loggos]

"They have no further purpose". Did you think Zoraal Ja was just having them standing around, doing nothing for 30 years till he could merge with the Source? Obviously not. They were were used, and they weren't enough, hence the Hunters.

You misunderstood me.

His military has no further purpose now that he is gone. We have obviously seen some robots patroling Heritage Found but Alexandria has a full cyber space force. Literal ships flying in the sky that are strong enough to conquer Tural. If you have that much power, again power to conquer not just a continent but the entire world (which was his goal), you just cannot tell me that for some reason, now that he is gone, that power cannot be redirected to fight normal monsters in your local area.

His military cannot simultaneously have enough robots/figters/force to conquer the world but not enough to deal with monsters.

Also, as I said above, there are more options for Alexandrians now. They are part of Tural at this point. We can forge alliances, establish trade etc. Guraal Ja 2.0 is their ruler and has direct ties to Wuk, who is hellbent on peace and harmony. There is just no implication that the Alexandrians are done for.

[celfhelp]

(Also, I don't think it's very "peaceful" to say "give up your whole nation and way of life and succumb to us, otherwise we'll have to harvest you". That is just colonialisation/conquest, no matter how regretful Sphene is or how nicely she asks.)

it's more peaceful than slaughter. plenty of cultures/peoples survive today because colonialism/conquest of all brands and sources wasn't flatout slaughter (most of the time)

don't get me wrong, she was always going to go the slaughter route because the story demanded it. granted Preservation disappeared but you'd think that they could've found an alternative fuel source if they just committed to finding it. would've personally enjoyed exploring that route more, but it'd probably make for a horribly boring video game main story. haha

[ElHeggunte]

I don’t see how any of this is a moral issue on our part. The Endless barely qualify as existing. They certainly aren’t alive in any meaningful capacity. And their continued existence was going to be at the expense of everyone on the Source.

It’s not like we barged into a stable world that was just minding its own business and screwed things up for the people living there. Someone from an unstable and dying world invaded ours and declared war so they could continue to sustain the projections of people who didn’t really exist anymore. The only questionable ethics lie with Sphene and her interpretation of her programming.

[LuciferMournstar]

You misunderstood me.

His military has no further purpose now that he is gone. We have obviously seen some robots patroling Heritage Found but Alexandria has a full cyber space force. Literal ships flying in the sky that are strong enough to conquer Tural. If you have that much power, again power to conquer not just a continent but the entire world (which was his goal), you just cannot tell me that for some reason, now that he is gone, that power cannot be redirected to fight normal monsters in your local area.

His military cannot simultaneously have enough robots/figters/force to conquer the world but not enough to deal with monsters.

You're forgetting, Zoraal Ja was OVERLY arrogant, and thought very little of Tural and the Source overall. He might have THOUGHT his military was that powerful, but it really wasn't. He more than likely thought his military, being strong enough to keep things kind of safe in the Lightning Hellscape meant is was superior. His pride and his ego lead him to think otherwise.

[Loggos]

it's more peaceful than slaughter. plenty of cultures/peoples survive today because colonialism/conquest of all brands and sources wasn't flatout slaughter (most of the time)

I'd say more "peaceful" but not actually peaceful. I didn't intend to say it was as bad as slaugher so technically I agree. I just mean that it would still be incredibly immoral by Sphene (if she were to offer Tural to become Alexandrians, which I don't think she was actually implying, as said above) to put the gun on a whole continent's chest and say "succumb or die". (I'm also not sure I agree with "cultures survived because of colonialism/conquest" because if they hadn't been colonised in the first place...but this is another can of worms and I don't want to open up a debate on this any further, so I'll stop here.)

Regarding Sphene, the only point I was trying to make with that quoted part is that none of her actions or (theoretical) intentions (assuming for the sake of the argument she was offering Tural to join her kingdom) were actually peaceful, so her offer is not a display of her "good" character is all.

I agree on exploring different solutions but I think this is a separate point because she could also have explored these things with us without (theoretically) asking Tural to become Alexandrian.

[Espon]

Yeah, Alexandria still exist in Heritage Found and Solution 9, but they are doomed for good now. We are going to wipe them out too. Their regulators no longer will have souls supplied to them, so everything in the "bubble" is doomed. Hunters in the bubble can no longer use souls, they will die trying to stop the monsters in that Lighting destroyed world. Which means eventually all of Heritage Found, Solution 9, and Living Memory will be overrun and uninhabitable. Also, we're going to put a stop to the use of Beast Souls. We're wiping out their entire culture, way of life, and any hope of continuing. They have one recourse : Abandon their culture, their home, and move to the source. Eletrope won't have use in the source without the abundance of Lightning Eather, so that'll be forgotten too.

There is no "happy ending" to this story. Alexandria is dying, and in about 100 years or so, will fade into obscurity and distant memory. If it takes even that long.

We didn't doom the people of Heritage Found and Solution 9 and we have no plans on wiping them out. Extra souls only save them from sudden death. Getting old is still an inevitability (as we saw was the case with Namikka) and children can still be born. Even if they eventually run out of extra souls, they can still continue on living just like the rest of society, they just cannot be careless anymore with their one life.

[Averax]

I mean there's good reason the endless should have, y'know, ended. It doesn't mean it had to feel good to do it.

Left unhindered, Sphene would have consumed each reflection until there was nothing left to sustain the endless. Many endless didn't seem to really be cool with the idea of mass death being caused to keep them going when they've already died.

[Themarvin]

Well in short you get the ability to turn off Skynet before it become a reality it is also a punch in the face to the direction of where AI is going as well the entire concept that we live more on out smartphones in a virtual world where you are an actual victim of misinformation and brainwashing, because it is what is happening right now and big companies and groups in the real would with malicious intend, is using this media to polarize people in general in a way they believe what the smartphone say but forget there is an option to look in other places unless trapped with an algoritme.

Like the pit-fighter in the cutscene, who is having mental breakdown as got no more souls to feed on in a figure of speech.

In general alot of people have problems to grasp that and or lack the ability to analyze the content and deeper meaning with the story, as it is also a mockery of what is happen right now in the real world, and not just in your local country or only within your borders.

Currently big parts of the world is moving into not asking questions and just being a slave of social media.

[Bright-Flower]

If their guns and ships worked like you say, why did they use Hunters with Beast Souls and regulators to begin with? Why waste the precious souls needed to keep Living Memory going on Hunters, if they didn't need to? Electrope may work for a while outside in Tuliloyol, but it was specifically said it converts LIGHTNING energy and needs quite a bit. Plus, what would be the point of the continued use of Electrope, when it's no longer needed because the source isn't assailed by massive amounts of lightning energy? What purpose would regulators serve without souls? Absolutely none.

I admire your continued nativity, I'll give you that. You really do try to look on the bright side (no pun intended), but life and the world can be cruel.

Why use hunters and beast souls when they have a robot army and airships? I don't know. Maybe it's lazy world building. Maybe Zooral Ja was just a bad ruler and didn't care about such issues when he was focused on conquest. Either way he's gone now, but they still have that technology.

Technology that was working just fine outside of the dome. At best you could argue that 'maybe' they have to go back to Heritage Found to recharge or something, but we haven't seen that actually happen. In both attacks against the capital their guns and robots and airships worked just fine despite being away from the lightning dome.

'The Source' is not assailed by lightning but Heritage Found definitely is. Electrope will continue to be useful there for as long as the region is heavily lightning aspected, and there's no hint of that going away. No suggestion in the story that Electrope or Electrope technology is going away. And even if it did, that would be a consequence of them fusing themselves to the Source, not us destroying their culture.

You're looking at this for what you think 'should' from your perspective be a realistic outcome, but that's not the reality the game is presenting us. You're not being realistic here you're trying to impose doom and gloom onto a story that's telling us these people are fine for now.