Questionable ethics - Living Memory

[Wired-Lain]

We turned off the projector of memories.

They aren't alive. They can't interact with the real world.
They are ghosts of the past, in digital form.

They don't even have souls, those are stripped in the process, but the system that runs them requires souls to function.
It's not sustainable.

But... They can interact with the real world. The entire story is predicated on Cahciua, an endless, leaving via a robot to plot against Sphene. I don't understand why everyones acting like they're just empty replays of old memories when they constantly show that they're sentient and capable of aspiration. These aren't faded recordings of dead people on repeat like the shades in Amaurot, these are the memories of dead people continuing to live. I mean for gods sake we literally see one of them attain a happier memory and change before our eyes. Yes allowing them to persist as is is out of the question, the needs of all shards outweigh a single city, of course it does. I just cannot see the warrior of light or the scions not even bothering to discuss this obvious ethical dilemma, theres more discussion in this thread about the Endless than we get in the game itself. It just feels incredibly shallow that none of the characters we know stop to think about this, given everything we went through redefining the definition of what it means to be "alive" over the past 4 years. That's my issue.

To me the total disinterest in this from both the game and people in this thread showcases a weird and unfortunate shift from topics this game used to excel at and relish exploring. Now we're told to just not think about it too much.

[Karkarov]

But... They can interact with the real world. The entire story is predicated on Cahciua, an endless, leaving via a robot to plot against Sphene. I don't understand why everyones acting like they're just empty replays of old memories when they constantly show that they're sentient and capable of aspiration.

Right. And do you have any idea how many bs plot holes they had to create to do that and just hand wave it with no explanation? The very "totally real person" you are talking about claims the computer intentionally creates events because they think the simulacrum would want them to happen. They also tell you point blank the endless can't leave living memory period, can't taste real food, can't mature past whatever their memories had them at, they clearly can't reproduce, and they no longer have souls. Souls being a very real thing in the world of FF14.

The writing of this expansion is crap. They desperately want you to care about the enless, while also telling you the endless are just computer simulations and not real people. Good writing would have chosen one route and stuck to it, they chose the lazy way of having your cake and eating it too without taking ownership of any of the obvious plot holes this created. In the end cold reality, I turned off a server and the vast majority of the endless vanished. And thus they are not real people, you can't delete real people by turning a computer off. Not even the Omicrons.

[LuciferMournstar]

But... They can interact with the real world. The entire story is predicated on Cahciua, an endless, leaving via a robot to plot against Sphene. I don't understand why everyones acting like they're just empty replays of old memories when they constantly show that they're sentient and capable of aspiration. These aren't faded recordings of dead people on repeat like the shades in Amaurot, these are the memories of dead people continuing to live. I mean for gods sake we literally see one of them attain a happier memory and change before our eyes. Yes allowing them to persist as is is out of the question, the needs of all shards outweigh a single city, of course it does. I just cannot see the warrior of light or the scions not even bothering to discuss this obvious ethical dilemma, theres more discussion in this thread about the Endless than we get in the game itself. It just feels incredibly shallow that none of the characters we know stop to think about this, given everything we went through redefining the definition of what it means to be "alive" over the past 4 years. That's my issue.

To me the total disinterest in this from both the game and people in this thread showcases a weird and unfortunate shift from topics this game used to excel at and relish exploring. Now we're told to just not think about it too much.

There is a reason for that out of character shift and why we're "not supposed to think about it too much", but it's IRL politics. Last time I tried to explain that, all that happened was I got called paranoid and crazy. Let's just say, they want you to "just accept the message and let it happen."

[Boblawblah]

There is a reason for that out of character shift and why we're "not supposed to think about it too much", but it's IRL politics. Last time I tried to explain that, all that happened was I got called paranoid and crazy. Let's just say, they want you to "just accept the message and let it happen."

Why do I get the feeling that these "IRL politics" you're talking about are somehow related to "woke ideology" or something similar? idk, I'm just getting an alt-right vibe, let me know if I'm wrong though.

[LuciferMournstar]

Why do I get the feeling that these "IRL politics" you're talking about are somehow related to "woke ideology" or something similar? idk, I'm just getting an alt-right vibe, let me know if I'm wrong though.

As if you don't know, considering you were one of the people to go after me. "Alt-right" and more buzzwords you use to cancel anyone who brings attention to something you want kept quiet and not brought attention to. "Let me know if if I'm wrong though", don't play coy with me.

[Bright-Flower]

There is a reason for that out of character shift and why we're "not supposed to think about it too much", but it's IRL politics. Last time I tried to explain that, all that happened was I got called paranoid and crazy. Let's just say, they want you to "just accept the message and let it happen."

You were saying that the Pelu Pelu are stand ins for jews, that the disease the giants encountered during their conquest was somehow a parallel to the Nazi invasion of Russia, and that Living Memory is saying white people are expendable because most npcs there are fair skinned, ignoring that that's just a general trend in the game at large for the more human races. And then here, you made ups tuff about how Alexandria is somehow doomed despite the MSQ not indicating this at all.

Yes, you are paranoid. Yes, you are reading too much into stuff.

[Sililos]

We turned off the projector of memories.

They aren't alive. They can't interact with the real world.
They are ghosts of the past, in digital form.

They don't even have souls, those are stripped in the process, but the system that runs them requires souls to function.
It's not sustainable.

So we don't really see them as people or truly alive?

Damn they turned us into Emet Selch!

(It did need to be shut down though sadly)

[freekyfreezer]

Is it morally wrong, though? Sphene has repeatedly made clear that she will destroy our planet if it means keeping the Endless alive. Living Memory was shown to be a dying world throughout with the souls depleted, it was unsustainable and benefitted hardly anyone. Should the people of Etheirys just accept their own death as a sacrifice for the dead of another shard?

[Wojnar]

Why we do even have to erase them instead of just shutting the system down? We know that only 1/10 of Endless are online, so that means they can be kept archived offline for no or much less energy.

That was my first thought and it frustrates me to this day.

I have a feeling that thay wanted no matter to implement the art decision of shutting down the beatiful realm, because they knew it would have emotional impact. But in doing so, they hammered the whole plot logic into a very questionable, to say the least, writing.

There must be some sort of connection between player and a story or characters to cause any emotional impact. I felt nothing but frustration. On top of that, they ruined nice zone to do some gathering and fates.

[GTK0HLK]

They're Savefiles, engrams, Digitized memory. No longer in standard "Living Being" Format. Can't be Transplanted in Conventional Bodies. Let alone Like Otis.

Move on, Let Go.
Just as the game tells you.

The Memories Could only Update at Most.

They have no bodies, and they require Soul Energy From the Living.

They'll Kill for what is already Dead.

Unlike SoulKiller and Mikoshi. There is no going back once you're this kind of dead.