Questionable ethics - Living Memory

[Kiarin]

Hey o//

Spoilers for the end of MSQ.

Our actions in Living Memory seem morally wrong.
We don't hold any authority in Sphene's kingdom and don't have the right to wander around switching off parts of her realm as we please. The only reason why we do it is because one of the Endless asked for it, but she doesn't have the right to make the decision for all of them either.

What right we have is to go and stop Sphene, because she's aiming to harm people outside that she has no rule over, and who we have to protect. After we defeat her, if Sphene is still somehow alive, it's her who should enact changes in her realm. If she's not, than a new legitimate local power must do it, e.g. the little Gulool Ja, or better a majority vote where Endless decide their own fate.

Now, most likely we just shut down a couple of advanced chatbots, and our actions objectively are most likely not evil, but Sphene explicitly stated multiple times that she views Endless as her full-fledged citizens, and we know this viewpoint of her. So to her perception, what we are doing is willingly commiting a mass-scale genocide of her people. If I were her, I would be very mad at us to say the least. But she doesn't even mention our actions, which is weird in itself, but that's another point.

Note 1: if Endless are your precious citizens, dear Sphene, why the heck didn't you try to protect them? Put at least some guards around monoliths, you know? Especially considering that you saw and knew that we, hostile forces, have arrived into Living Memory.

Why we do even have to erase them instead of just shutting the system down? We know that only 1/10 of Endless are online, so that means they can be kept archived offline for no or much less energy. We could just put them all offline temporarily, without erasing the data itself, and take any amount of time to search for the solution of their problem. If we could fetch huge amounts of aether from 1st to 13th, we have all chances to reconfigure Sphene's system somehow. Maybe feed it the souls of voisent, lol, since they all want to die anyway. Perfect combo.

Note 2: when the fight with Robo-Sphene starts and she talks again about protecting her precious Endless, why couldn't anyone tell her - sorry, lady, we just erased all of them, so you don't have the reason to fight anymore?

Now, one could counterargument that we are effectively at war with Sphene's nation and we make harsh decisions in extreme circumstances. But erasing Endless doesn't serve to diminish Sphene's battle power. We are just targeting civilians, which is a warcrime - at least from Sphene's point of view.

Summary. I have a feeling that thay wanted no matter to implement the art decision of shutting down the beatiful realm, because they knew it would have emotional impact. But in doing so, they hammered the whole plot logic into a very questionable, to say the least, writing.

What do you think?

[Evergrey]

Note 2: when the start with Robo-Sphene starts and she talks again about protecting her precious Endless, why couldn't anyone tell her - sorry, lady, we just erased all of them, so you don't have the reason to fight anymore?

Seeing how she was able to make more Endless she could've simply made more so even if the previous ones weren't there anyone she could start over.

[Mnemy]

This also bring to mind one of the things that really fucked me up cus it conflicts so much with lot of shit that we fought Emet for.

Cahcuia's "Dont feel bad about shutting them down they are not alive" vs Emet's "I do not consider you to be truly alive. Ergo, I will not be guilty of murder if I kill you." Really took the cake for my disbelief in this expac.

If the scions in DT is written by Ishikawa THIS would be a big issue and a BIG ASS RED FLAG. The Scions would be aghast with this, Cahciua is saying they are not alive but we see it to be contradictory, There is a truth to Sphene's words that just because they're machines/programs doesnt mean they arent sentient. Even Cahciua proves this by having the sentience enough to HATE the fact that shes alive because of souls of other people. HECK EVEN THE FINAL BATTLE PROVES THIS BECAUSE WHEN WL ENTERED THE STAGE SPHENE HAS SENTIENCE AND EMOTIONS ENOUGH TO REACT AND PARTIALLY RESTORE HERSELF IN REACTION TO WL. And has everyone forgotten the Omicrons and Omega? Hello?? I would love for the game to explore the moral dilemma of this problem because it could've been so gut wrenching and excrutiatingly painful for us to shut them down if we explored this more instead of the token shoved down our throats gimmick to harvest tears from players.

[Eraden]

Mao nots worried. If Mao can't eats thems then thems not real. Mao is feral Au Ra raised by Dragons so Mao world view differents then other peoples.

[Andevom]

I think we need another Emperor Varis situation where someone sits down and points out all of the hypocrisy in the Scion's actions so they can grumble and realize they have no good counter argument.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Yeah, it's kinda explicited that they actually devour living peoples' souls to "simulate" life. If they didn't need any other source of energy, that would be great, and shutting them down would be wrong, but in this case, that's just, arithmetically right, morally right, and, yet, nonetheless gut wrenching. Because you can see these people live, but they "live" at the detriment of others, after their own life is already over. That's the epitomy of egoistical behavior.

And no, it doesn't contradict the WoL fighting Emet Selch. It's the same thing, really : those people, whether they are the ascians or sphene's people, are dead. That may be sad, but they are. Enabling them to "live" again is always at the detriment of other living people, and their lives isn't more important than the people they need to kill to live.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

We turned off the projector of memories.

They aren't alive. They can't interact with the real world.
They are ghosts of the past, in digital form.

They don't even have souls, those are stripped in the process, but the system that runs them requires souls to function.
It's not sustainable.

[freekyfreezer]

Is it morally wrong, though? Sphene has repeatedly made clear that she will destroy our planet if it means keeping the Endless alive. Living Memory was shown to be a dying world throughout with the souls depleted, it was unsustainable and benefitted hardly anyone. Should the people of Etheirys just accept their own death as a sacrifice for the dead of another shard?

[Wojnar]

Why we do even have to erase them instead of just shutting the system down? We know that only 1/10 of Endless are online, so that means they can be kept archived offline for no or much less energy.

That was my first thought and it frustrates me to this day.

I have a feeling that thay wanted no matter to implement the art decision of shutting down the beatiful realm, because they knew it would have emotional impact. But in doing so, they hammered the whole plot logic into a very questionable, to say the least, writing.

There must be some sort of connection between player and a story or characters to cause any emotional impact. I felt nothing but frustration. On top of that, they ruined nice zone to do some gathering and fates.

[Caitlinzulu]

I would rather not have huge moral issues in my relaxation game. Its just a game, there is no way any of us would do things rl that we choose or do ingame.