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  1. #1
    Player
    DaKitten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Ai Aely
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100

    The healer issue? I really dunno what to put here.

    So I had a couple of questions revolving around the FFXIV Healer Strike thing I saw, what was it all about? What do healers really want?

    I mean I mained SGE through EW and ended up really liking it but admittedly it is a unique healer from what I have seen, is there something wrong with the other healers I am missing?
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    BigCheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    691
    Character
    Cheez Whiz
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    If 50% of the role is supposed to be damage dealing (and it's arguably more than 50%), they should have a more interesting dps rotation. Dia > Glare*10 > repeat isn't very engaging.
    (29)
    Last edited by BigCheez; 07-15-2024 at 10:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Doriann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    22
    Character
    Dorian Malkiff
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 55
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCheez View Post
    If 50% of the role is supposed to be damage dealing (and it's arguably more than 50%), they should have a more interesting dps rotation. Dia > Glare*10 > repeat isn't very engaging.
    This comment basically summarizes why so many people who have healers as their main/favorite classes are upset with the state of the game since Shadowbringers came: We are pressing 2 buttons most of the time, sometimes a third or fourth button here and then, most of the time.

    To understand "why" this happened you would need to look back into Stormblood. WHM was the most straightforward healer, it had Stone, Aero 2 and Aero 3 (AoE) in addition to Holy. Not many changes from now. AST was busy most of the time juggling cards and fetching the damage boost one (Arrow? I can't remember), it's main advantage was that it could AoE from a distance (Gravity) in addition to spamming buffs on everyone. SCH was the one who mostly played like a "third DPS", because it had access to so many damaing tools: Miasma 2 (AoE damage over time), Shadow Flare (a pool that did damage over time) and Miasma 3. Before Stormblood they all also had access to Thunder, due to cross-class abilities, and Cleric Stance, a permanent damage buff (in detriment of losing healing power), which gave rise to stance dancing.

    So in Stormblood, we had more or less:

    WHM: 2 single target damaging abilities + 2 AOE
    AST: 2 single target + 2 AoE (with stellar explosion)
    SCH: 3 single target (with Energy Drain) + 2 AoE

    Then Shadowbringers came, and while that is arguably one of the best final fantasy games to date, it was really detrimental to how healers played, especially SCH, who went from being "Summoner with a fairy and some shields" to a Broil spammer (before SHB, SMN's gameplay was centered around damage-over-time spells).

    Personally, I've been playing as a healer since 2.0 when we were complaining about server latency during hard mode Titan, and from SHB onwards healers have never felt more redundant and boring to play, it's a combination of lack of engaging gameplay on the damaging side (since all roles are expected to contribute to damage) to having too much mitigation everywhere. Most healers are healing with abilities outside the GCD, so we have to spend the rest of the time doing something else, which is pressing Broil/Glare to infinity. Either give us the old "DPS rotation" in Stormblood (they will never do this) or force us to spend most of our GCDs pressing healing spells instead (this will also not happen)
    (5)
    Last edited by Doriann; 07-16-2024 at 09:54 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    dezzmont's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    171
    Character
    Gaen Zaer
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DaKitten View Post
    So I had a couple of questions revolving around the FFXIV Healer Strike thing I saw, what was it all about? What do healers really want?

    I mean I mained SGE through EW and ended up really liking it but admittedly it is a unique healer from what I have seen, is there something wrong with the other healers I am missing?
    I don't necessarily agree with the strike, but I understand at least some of the context. If your involved, feel free to correct me.

    Healer has been in a really weird state for a while. Its DPS rotation is extremely simple, to the point of actively being boring, in order to allow healers to abort to healing in a pinch. But in 90% of content, healing is so simple that you never will do so. This leads to healing being really unsatisfying outside of savage. This is by and large the biggest complaint about the role: we aren't allowed interesting things to do in fights besides healing, and healing isn't important in most content. Compounding this is changes to jobs that constantly remove non-healing sources of complexity (ex: Astro cards got changed twice, the first time somewhat understandably, to make them simpler).

    On top of that, healing is not actually necessary even in savage, with many parties finding ways to clear with 1 or even 0 healers after a bit of time. This I think is less of a core problem, because the vast vast majority of players who do that content will do it with 2 healers and the healing in them is still more dynamic, but it is a problem some people taking part in the strike mention, so its important to bring up. Basically tanks have so much self healing now that if your a good tank you don't strictly need a healer in a lot of content. This is true for every role (basically the game is designed so that if one part of your group is a potato, the others can pick up the slack) but because healers are the 'most' optional due to providing the least DPS if everyone is playing well, they are the ones who get cut in these hyper-optimized runs.

    There is also a bit of weirdness with how healing is so oGCD focused rather than being about resource management and moment to moment play in other MMOs. Especially in easier content, you just smack an oGCD button every few seconds and everyone should live. We constantly get new healing buttons every expansion which do subtly different things and have interesting ramifications in higher end content, but don't do much when your in 'mash heal button to keep tank alive during pull' mode in dungeons or the 'don't even bother pressing heal buttons except after tankbusters or raidwides' trials. Dawntrail made healing in dungeons require more buttons, but its still kinda a 'faceroll on the keyboard' moment.

    That said, we were told before Dawntrail launched they had plans to change their philosophy for healing overall, that would not make it into dawntrail but instead be ready for next expansion, so I am fairly sure they got the message a long time ago (these complaints have been around for a long time) and the healing strike is a wee bit dramatic. But it definitely is based on real stuff.
    (25)

  5. #5
    Player
    elioaiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Junhee Hatsuharu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 94
    Healer strike is basically the community of veteran healers that are fed up with the devs essentially ignoring healers. Every expansion has been the same song and dance.

    Promises of increased healing checks but not actually doing it?
    Check.

    Healing being boring but there's nothing to heal?
    Check.

    AST/SCH either being broken or weak at the start of the launch only for the devs to over buff them because of low popularity?
    Check.

    WHM being left untouched and left to rot because the devs see high popularity and force the classic healing job into the box of being the beginner healer?
    Check.

    Devs not admitting that healers in the game don't just heal and actually contribute to doing damage but giving redundant healing abilities while not adding anything else meaningful to healer dps rotation?
    Check.

    People who don't play the role or healbot purists dying on the hill that healers should just heal instead of doing damage when said healing is so boring and easily dealt with and smashing the dps spam (and dot every 30s) 80% of the fight?
    Double check.

    I don't completely agree with the strike but I definitely understand the frustration over being ignored for several expansions.

    Another double standard is that people complain about dps queues being too long because tanks and healers dropping their roles to be dps because things are more interesting on that side. The devs put zero effort in job changes as it is and the fact they have gone on record to say that making a new healer or tank is so difficult when dps jobs are starting to see the effects of homogenization that tanks and healers have been subjected to since Stormblood.

    SGE is fine for now since it released last expansion. Give it some time and I imagine the devs will find a way to ruin it somehow.
    (31)

  6. #6
    Player Isala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Isala Zuntrios
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by elioaiko View Post
    SGE is fine for now since it released last expansion. Give it some time and I imagine the devs will find a way to ruin it somehow.
    They already did, literally right after the Media tour. The AoE DoT used to stack with the Single Target. And now it doesn't. Because #skillissue.
    (8)

  7. #7
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,244
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    The strike was really just something that had been happening on these forums for years and got a lot of attention somehow. Healers have actually been complaining about these things for an extremely long time.

    I disagree about SGE being all that unique when I got my SCH hotbar and just copied SGE's version of the same abilities onto it. People who don't play SCH may not be aware that there is a very big overlap though.

    Dungeon bosses have long been soloable by tanks sometimes, but it used to be a lot more challenging than it became in Endwalker. Trash packs that aren't threatening today were a lot more threatening without a healer before, due to battle system changes over the years. It was often possible to, say, do a dungeon with 4 DPS, but some of them would die to the bosses before beating them.

    What brought this to a head was that a meme developed in Endwalker to just take a Warrior and 3 DPS into dungeons and you'd see it talked about in the game a lot. It's not that you couldn't sorta do it before that, it just gained more traction due to it becoming increasingly easier to pull off. Streamers embrace memes, so this was done in a media tour video of the new expansion, proving immediately that it had not been addressed in the expansion, so a "strike" post was made that gained the attention of non-forum regular and content creators.
    (10)
    Last edited by Jeeqbit; 07-15-2024 at 08:40 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Kes13a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,842
    Character
    Etherea Stormaire
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DaKitten View Post
    So I had a couple of questions revolving around the FFXIV Healer Strike thing I saw, what was it all about? What do healers really want?

    I mean I mained SGE through EW and ended up really liking it but admittedly it is a unique healer from what I have seen, is there something wrong with the other healers I am missing?
    something wrong with them? not sure.... but perhaps you can figure out why Warrior and Monk need an AOE heal with a regen... because for the life of me... I cannot.
    (13)
    #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

  9. #9
    Player
    Naychan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    210
    Character
    Naychan Le'mew
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes13a View Post
    something wrong with them? not sure.... but perhaps you can figure out why Warrior and Monk need an AOE heal with a regen... because for the life of me... I cannot.
    To replace healers would be my guess. Once all dps have a AOE heal with regen, SE can fulfill their life long dream of balancing healers. Don't need healer balance if you don't need healers.
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player
    Kes13a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,842
    Character
    Etherea Stormaire
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Naychan View Post
    To replace healers would be my guess. Once all dps have a AOE heal with regen, SE can fulfill their life long dream of balancing healers. Don't need healer balance if you don't need healers.
    if thats where they are going thats fine.. but TELL US.

    its their game, their choices, so I would be okay with that. but its very slimey to lead people on thinking that there is a healer job when they are getting rid of it, which in all honest, seems to be the case.
    (1)
    #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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