MMO on Rails

[SuzakuCMX]

I'd like a game like that. I enjoy figuring out those kind of things.

I only use the Wiki for things like.. material locations, and prerequisite knowledge anyway.

ಠ_ಠ what

And I actually can provide an example of an audience for that kind of game. The Legend of Grimlock is a classic style dungeon crawler RPG with a mapless mode where you have to draw out your own map on grid paper, and the game itself is filled with all sorts of puzzles and secrets without any menus telling you where to go or what to do next. The game has sold very well on Steam and is one of my most recommended indie titles.

It's Grimrock.

Also I cannot tell you how pissed I would be if I had to run around the goddamn Black Shroud looking for Nine Ivies/Treespeak/Hyrstmill and ran into Twin Leaves or Sorrel Haven because I didn't have a map telling me where the hell I'm supposed to go. Most people would likely just get friends who explored to teleport them to all the aethergates anyways.

[Antipika]

Themepark and on-rails are very different. I don't mind having a little more direction (although the system in place is pretty good) but I definitely don't want an experience reminiscent of the Space battles in SWTOR (now, that's "on rails")

the flight missions in SWTOR were on rails. you had a set path. you could not deviate from it. all you could do was shoot at stuff. to me, this is what being on rails means to me.

Rail shooting is a genre in itself. It has nothing to do with MMOs and it was just a "mini game" in SWTOR. Rail shooters are games like Space Harrier, REZ, Child of Eden... I don't really see why these are mentioned in this thread. "Rail" is just being use to say "lot of guidance"...

I'd like a game like that. I enjoy figuring out those kind of things.

But how many does? And in general, how big is the population enjoying that?

Don't get me wrong, I played XI, I went through it, took me 2hr to get out of Windurst alone, and I enjoyed it. Now I gave this game to lot of people around me, trying to drag their in. Most of them were used to modern MMOs, they all left before reaching lv15... Why? Because of the lack of directions.

Giving more directions to players with a possibility of turning off hints will always be a winner versus giving less directions. If a feature is there and you don't like it, do not use it. But if a feature is missing and you really want it, what are you supposed to do?

Also people saying please use wiki are sure English speakers. Looks like they have no idea how this work out for French (or German) players. Resources are very limited in French since the community is way smaller, and the part of the community not speaking English is even smaller... Which mean outdated wiki or even no wiki at all. When content gets released, it takes ages before seeing pages translated into French etc. So these players are automatically left out because the game fails to provide them with directions and wikis/community as well.

[Gramul]

ಠ_ಠ what



It's Grimrock.

Also I cannot tell you how pissed I would be if I had to run around the goddamn Black Shroud looking for Nine Ivies/Treespeak/Hyrstmill and ran into Twin Leaves or Sorrel Haven because I didn't have a map telling me where the hell I'm supposed to go. Most people would likely just get friends who explored to teleport them to all the aethergates anyways.

Thanks for the correction on the typo.

And personally, I'd be fine with no map if the terain wasn't the same bloby cluttered mess. I can get around in real life without maps just fine based on landmarks and buildings.
With Grimrock and early games, there's at least a grid system for the samey walls and corodors you can track.

Games like the Original Legend of Zelda, Y's, and Metroid 1 where a blast for me.

[Denmo]

I liked his comment and thought it was very accurate. I know! You two should team up and make a thread together!

We could be like Abbot and Costello!

Hey Rokien! I want you to meet my Garuda party! Who's the tank. What's the healer. I dunno's our DD....

[Mijin]

It's fine by me because to be honest, I'm the type of player that will read in full detail guides on doing any type of new raid or difficult quest anyway, so to me it makes little difference. I play for the sole purpose of progression though, if you are a more the type that plays for the experience I can see how this development would be unappealing.

It's worth taking notice however, all modern day MMO's follow this approach. Some are so easy that you just open the quest log, click the link, and it puts an X on your map and tells you exactly where to go. SE is trying to make the game easier to appeal to what I like to call the "Bad Player" market. Their number one goal is to make profit in the end, so I expect there will be a lot of dumbing down to come in 2.0 regardless of the current player bases desires.

[Rokien]

It's fine giving a hand here and there, but to make everyone so lazy is terrible.

Also just look how well Star wars did, ya, it's officially going free to play now, yep.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07...-free-to-play/

[Estellios]

Having information available in the game itself is not a bad thing. I await the day I never have to have a wiki/database open.

And how is telling players "Camp Drybone is the Level 10 area, if you are Level 10 you will find things to do there" any different from saying "You go to Valkurm Dunes and fight crabs at level 15". If anything the former will allow people to explore on their own because they know that is where they are supposed to be.

[Punainen]

I don't want an MMO on rails, but neither do I want it to be like XI where I was in the dark about everything unless I looked it up online.

[Viritess]

There is a place of open type unguided quests. but they are usually best kept to near the location of the quest giver. But should usually be prefaced by atleast letting a player know that a quest with no map point exists, and the general parameters it can include.

As some of my past postings have said. I really enjoy exploration and adventure. I like discovering things and finding new places and people (player or NPC) but quests them selves are requiring you to go somewhere and do something.

The only real life analogy i can think of is if a trucker showed up at a warehouse. Had the stuff loaded and when he asked where to go they said. Eh look for Joe's Market, Good luck. Quests to me are rarely the place to give no guidance at all. And even a quest where its left open should follow some "known" rules. SO a person who has never played, or played so many other things have some understanding of what is being required of them.

If you want a little adventure on a quest you could have the NPC in the general area of the quest. Have him tell you hes stalking beats "x" that lurks nearby, and then look around for it.

Quests that make you travel across the land and hope your trip over the location are more often frustraiting then fun. especially if its keeping you from another quest or the next part of the story line.

Besides i like Exploration and adventure when its more spintaneous. And theres no real expectation of anything, and a chance at nothing. Its what makes finding "something" that much more thrilling.

[Laraul]

Wasn't one of the reasons for XI originally having no windowed mode being that Tanaka saw it as an unfair advantage that PC players could look everything up if it was allowed and PS2 players couldn't?

No of course not. The PC version was a hastily done port of the PS2 version. And I assume they thought just a simple notification upon the loss of full screen would suffice as the user would then be able to log in again.

It also tells me that challenge people don't want is "I don't wanna read!". BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! it's really laughable. Like, this game should have adventure, it's not even about challenge, it's about laziness. Hell, I'm a super lazy guy BLAH! BLAH!

We all believe your a super lazy guy Rokien. No need to tell us so enthusiastically.

What does reading and lazy ness have to do with the game? You mean it's lazy for people to not look stuff up and read what to do? Rather than wonder aimlessly without a clue? Hmmm... interesting perspective.