FFXIV: Do Better

[LianaThorne]

Just gonna drop this study here again as a potential explanation for why the game is becoming "dumbed down" or "less involved mentally".

https://quanticfoundry.com/2024/05/21/strategy-decline/

This is a study on gamer motivations that has been conducted over the last 9 years (published May 2024) with a pool of around 1.7m people. It outlines the 12 motivations of gaming and how, compared to the other 11, strategy in particular has taken a much larger decline in priority to gamers.

A quote:
"Even if the underlying cause(s) cannot be identified, it’s clear that gamers have become less interested in strategic thinking over the past 9 years. It implies that gamers are now more easily cognitively overloaded when they play games and are more likely to avoid strategic complexity. This has implications for game design and marketing. Overall, gamers now prefer shorter time horizons to plan for (i.e., the number of steps and branching outcomes they have to think through) and less complex decisions that rely on fewer parameters to consider."

[Isala]

Just gonna drop this study here again as a potential explanation for why the game is becoming "dumbed down" or "less involved mentally".

https://quanticfoundry.com/2024/05/21/strategy-decline/

This is a study on gamer motivations that has been conducted over the last 9 years (published May 2024) with a pool of around 1.7m people. It outlines the 12 motivations of gaming and how, compared to the other 11, strategy in particular has taken a much larger decline in priority to gamers.

A quote:
"Even if the underlying cause(s) cannot be identified, it’s clear that gamers have become less interested in strategic thinking over the past 9 years. It implies that gamers are now more easily cognitively overloaded when they play games and are more likely to avoid strategic complexity. This has implications for game design and marketing. Overall, gamers now prefer shorter time horizons to plan for (i.e., the number of steps and branching outcomes they have to think through) and less complex decisions that rely on fewer parameters to consider."

I've seen that study before, but there is a lot that it doesn't take into account. It doesn't go into the fact that games themselves have stopped asking gamers to think, to chase the "wider audience", nor does it go into the fact that anyone with a phone and Candy Crush can also consider themselves a gamer.

[LianaThorne]

I've seen that study before, but there is a lot that it doesn't take into account. It doesn't go into the fact that games themselves have stopped asking gamers to think, to chase the "wider audience", nor does it go into the fact that anyone with a phone and Candy Crush can also consider themselves a gamer.

I mean, I feel like if there wasn't an audience for the "dumbed down thinking" those types of games wouldn't be as popular as they are now. Wouldn't they have just died off if the masses wanted something more complex?

I also don't fully think it's gaming's fault either that this happened as short form media/"easily digestible content" as a whole has taken over. You only need to look at how popular TikTok/YouTube shorts/etc. are to the general public. It's been a thing for years and I believe originally started in 2013 on Vine? That also wouldn't have continued to exist and subsequently exploded with TikTok if there wasn't an audience for that type of content.

I also don't really understand the point of saying "Oh you play x, you're not really a gamer." They're still playing a game, so by definition they are one. If you don't want to recognize that because of a certain standard you have, fair enough.

[Isala]

I mean, I feel like if there wasn't an audience for the "dumbed down thinking" those types of games wouldn't be as popular as they are now. Wouldn't they have just died off if the masses wanted something more complex?

I also don't fully think it's gaming's fault either that this happened as short form media/"easily digestible content" as a whole has taken over. You only need to look at how popular TikTok/YouTube shorts/etc. are to the general public. It's been a thing for years and I believe originally started in 2013 on Vine? That also wouldn't have continued to exist and subsequently exploded with TikTok if there wasn't an audience for that type of content.

I also don't really understand the point of saying "Oh you play x, you're not really a gamer." They're still playing a game, so by definition they are one. If you don't want to recognize that because of a certain standard you have, fair enough.

Not trying to gatekeep here, just saying that the term "gamer" has been diluted to the point where literally anyone who has even touched a game is considered one. It'd be like saying "I put a TV dinner in the microwave one time, so that makes me a chef."

[SieyaM]

Not trying to gatekeep here, just saying that the term "gamer" has been diluted to the point where literally anyone who has even touched a game is considered one. It'd be like saying "I put a TV dinner in the microwave one time, so that makes me a chef."

This is a no true scotsman argument and a pretty bald faced one at that. Look I understand not wanting to include people because they only play puzzle games or what you might refer to as Candy Crush, but this quickly turns into excluding people because they don't play competitively at a professional level. Usually people who employ this argument think that only people they approve of personally should be allowed to have opinions on a matter and be heard, and anyone else just doesn't matter because they aren't as informed or invested.

[Evergrey]

I mean, I feel like if there wasn't an audience for the "dumbed down thinking" those types of games wouldn't be as popular as they are now. Wouldn't they have just died off if the masses wanted something more complex?

One of my personal take on the "audience for dumbed down thinking" when it comes to games boils down to how people in general don't have the same time to dedicate in games as one might've once had.
Like, when digital games came out it was mostly younger people who was drawn into it. Kids that outside of School had plenty of time to sit down and play games.
Now those kids are adults, many with jobs and/or a family to take care of. So a game being simple, having a lot of QoL features making the pacing of a game smoother/faster feels like welcoming, maybe even necessary to many to give them the little time they have to sit down and enjoy a game.
And an MMO is probably the type of game that requires the most time and dedication from their players if they are to experience what the game has.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

I've seen that study before, but there is a lot that it doesn't take into account. It doesn't go into the fact that games themselves have stopped asking gamers to think, to chase the "wider audience", nor does it go into the fact that anyone with a phone and Candy Crush can also consider themselves a gamer.

Speaking as a former game dev that had access to internal play statistics & player habits on the games I worked on, games have stopped asking players to think because players wanted to stop thinking. It wasn't just an immediate halt, even at our company we noticed every game we developed with more simplistic systems and cheap dopamine skinner-box techniques were becoming more popular and profitable instead of any project with complex systems and genuine in-game feedback reward systems, so our company's game development shifted over years accordingly to more simplified experiences and streamlined game systems.

Game development will go where the money is, and its not even the 'Anyone with a phone' people you want to highlight that's causing the major shift either. Every AAA game studio has come to the realization after countless data analyzation that an ever-growing majority of gamers are simply looking for relaxing experiences with quick, cheap adrenaline hits rather than intricate, complex game experiences that reward logical thinking. The study even rightfully points this out that even the film industry is noticing the same trend of a decreasing attention span and desire to cognitively think by reducing the average time any single shot remains on screen way down.

[GrizzlyTank]

Speaking as a former game dev that had access to internal play statistics & player habits on the games I worked on, games have stopped asking players to think because players wanted to stop thinking. It wasn't just an immediate halt, even at our company we noticed every game we developed with more simplistic systems and cheap dopamine skinner-box techniques were becoming more popular and profitable instead of any project with complex systems and genuine in-game feedback reward systems, so our company's game development shifted over years accordingly to more simplified experiences and streamlined game systems.

Case in point. Dawntrail monk, who's rotation didn't even survive before the first savage raid was released before the devs reworked it again to match more like it was previously which was simpler.

[lolnotacat]

Words...

No wonder I stopped playing most games and going to movies.

Sidenote; I work in mobile gaming and the dopamine hit, short attention span thing has been an issue for a while. Almost 10 years ago I worked on a very large Mobile Game and managed in-game events for monetization. After spending a lot of time with a couple designers to set up a fun and well thought out tournament event for the end of the year it was shot down. Why? I'll quote the product manager: "Your event would be fun, but it would be 'too fun' and cause players to spend less." That single experience has taught me more about the game industry and player behavior than almost all my other experiences combined. Want in-depth experiences? Buy them. They're out there, but usually not by AAA companies as they just don't make enough cash.

[Rekh]

Speaking as a former game dev that had access to internal play statistics & player habits on the games I worked on, games have stopped asking players to think because players wanted to stop thinking. It wasn't just an immediate halt, even at our company we noticed every game we developed with more simplistic systems and cheap dopamine skinner-box techniques were becoming more popular and profitable instead of any project with complex systems and genuine in-game feedback reward systems, so our company's game development shifted over years accordingly to more simplified experiences and streamlined game systems.

Game development will go where the money is, and its not even the 'Anyone with a phone' people you want to highlight that's causing the major shift either. Every AAA game studio has come to the realization after countless data analyzation that an ever-growing majority of gamers are simply looking for relaxing experiences with quick, cheap adrenaline hits rather than intricate, complex game experiences that reward logical thinking. The study even rightfully points this out that even the film industry is noticing the same trend of a decreasing attention span and desire to cognitively think by reducing the average time any single shot remains on screen way down.

Instead of dumbing down and making simple games to attract people with 7-year old under-developed brains the better game developers design easy to learn but hard to master games like Elden Ring/Souls games and Baldur's gate.

That's what XIV had with heavensward and stormblood. Then we got shadowbringers and dark knight became warrior with a sword and it all got even more dumbed down in endwalker.