Meleewalker to Meleetrail

[Thyrand]

This guy plays SAM so a difficult class right? I mean it's obviously harder than let's say... BRD or BLM right?

My dude, you play the easiest role in this game and most of you STILL struggles to basic mechs lmao, and before being sarcastic about someone playing Sam, I'd advice you to try playing it in an optimized environment before being smug about it

[Galvuu]

My dude, you play the easiest role in this game and most of you STILL struggles to basic mechs lmao, and before being sarcastic about someone playing Sam, I'd advice you to try playing it in an optimized environment before being smug about it

I agree that phys ranged is the easiest dps role on average, but BRD is definitely more challenging than the other two phys ranged jobs, and more challenging than some casters and most melee.
Especially if you die and need to resync everything, it's extremely painful.

[angienessyo]

From what we've seen they are making melee work for their uptime this time around, which is great. Phys ranged needs some love as they're definitely not doing great atm. I can't speak for all casters as I primarily play RDM, but at least on the RDM side of things they mostly resolved our main issue from Endwalker. Which was us struggling to maintain uptime when there's a lot of consistent movement, which is basically fixed. Our only lingering problem is we still get weirdly punished during 2 minutes on fights that force the caster to disengage. Imo the casters should be a lot closer to the non selfish melee, including RDM/SMN. And obviously poor BLM needs a lot of love right now, but once it does get that love I can see double caster coming back in a big way with PCT.

[Ramiee]

What's wrong with the song rotation? Besides that the recast could be adjusted? I think it's a neat and unique concept proper to the job. I'd kill to get something flavorful like that on mch...

If you die all of your songs are messed up and you lose all your damage and your reason for being there. Radiant finale buffs less, you do less damage and overall its incredibly punishing and so hard to recover from. It also means you have to stare at your song gauge often to see if your at the right time to switch songs so you can align with the 2 minute burst. If the game wasnt designed around raid buff alignment it would be more fine I would still hate it because this whole system reads Dancer far more to me then bard.

[Dogempire]

My dude, you play the easiest role in this game and most of you STILL struggles to basic mechs lmao, and before being sarcastic about someone playing Sam, I'd advice you to try playing it in an optimized environment before being smug about it

Melee dps isn't that much harder than phys ranged right now between the gargantuan boss hitboxes and the fact that bosses just being circles with no positional requirements is pretty common. It also helps that melee barely get punished for missing a positional aside from losing a bit of potency.

Jobs are pretty braindead across the board, so saying lobotomized role A is harder than lobotomized role B isn't saying all that much.

[LilyPendragon]

You're never bringing three melee to a party, you can bring triple ranged and it's fine, what do you people want exactly? Triple ranged being standard? Melee being so weak that you bring quad ranged?

Splitting them into melee and ranged is incredibly dishonest. It's not ranged it's magical ranged and physical ranged. They're two different roles

[LilyPendragon]

There literally wasn't a single savage fight last expansion where anyone brought triple melee. You can look at the speed kill logs, every single rank 1 had double melee and one physical ranged/one caster (as it should be).

Melees insisting double melee should be the default as usual. No surprise there. Double melee shouldn't be any more the default than double caster or even double physrange, but melees were so catered to during EW that they thing double melee is something they're entitled to

[Dogempire]

It won't change as long as melee players believe they are god's gift to the world and that they are sweating so hard in a game with as low of a skill ceiling as an MMO.

It obviously sucks to play RDM and SMN knowing that your damage is going to be severely gimped when you are just trying to play your favorite class. But hey at least you can sometimes be in the mood to play PCT/BLM and do high damage if you want in savage.

If you're playing physical ranged you have no options when it comes to having the chance to carry the DPS load for your group or party finder if you are a good player.

Melee really believe that their rotations are hard because they have to be within a few yalms of the boss to execute them...even though that is where literally everyone in the party sits for the majority of the fight.

Machinist is actually surprisingly competent at it, it's not as good at it as SAM or Picto in terms of RDPS, but it's middle of the pack in ADPS and will absolutely give anyone with partywide damage boosts a (slightly) higher parse because the burst phase is so chunky and uses the raidwide buffs much better than BRD and DNC.

...though that being said, it is sad to think that you get more from being perfect on a melee dps or BLM compared to being perfect on MCH

[AddictedToWitches]

Are we transitioning from Meleewalker straight into Meleetrail?
Another xpac of ranged being second class citizens?
Too early to tell but I'm placing my bets on it.

Oh nooooo muh ranged aren't the highest DPS so they are second class citizens
this is pathetic dude, the DPS ranges have almost always been so close between jobs in this game that if everyone knows what they're doing you could probably clear all ultimates with like 4 machinists as your DPS

[Valence]

I agree that phys ranged is the easiest dps role on average, but BRD is definitely more challenging than the other two phys ranged jobs, and more challenging than some casters and most melee.
Especially if you die and need to resync everything, it's extremely painful.

It's always amusing listening to melee brains that think the only thing to optimize is uptime. Either that, or bait to be honest considering the tone. I wouldn't bother. Shows how little they know about rphys.

( and i'm sorry but SMN is ten times easier than any rphys job, even DNC, and it's a "caster" )

If you die all of your songs are messed up and you lose all your damage and your reason for being there. Radiant finale buffs less, you do less damage and overall its incredibly punishing and so hard to recover from. It also means you have to stare at your song gauge often to see if your at the right time to switch songs so you can align with the 2 minute burst. If the game wasnt designed around raid buff alignment it would be more fine I would still hate it because this whole system reads Dancer far more to me then bard.

Is being actually punished for dying a bad thing in terms of design though? Unlike DNC that doesn't care at all since the gauge doesn't account for much resources or time and everything can drift without issues, BRD can suffer depending on when you die during the rotation yes (especially at the start of minuet of all songs), and the gauges are valuable resources. Dying at the start of a song leaves you songless until the next one. MCH is also punishing when dying, because you can drift tools that don't like drifting (chainsaw esp), because no part of your damage comes from allies unlike BRD and especially DNC, but more importantly because the gauge resources are insanely valuable in terms of potency. Losing a full battery is losing over 2500 (adjusted pet potency). Losing a full heat gauge is losing like 600-700 iirc. Potentially it can be more since all of this tends to be crammed under raid buffs.

But I don't think recovering from this is hard at all, except on numbers but that's a given when you die at the worst spot. The rotation can be salvaged relatively easily on both jobs if you know what to do. It's not like Stormblood MCH that was just you being absolutely worthless for a full minute either. We've seen a lot worse on death punishment. Of course if the argument is just the damage lost when dying as a rphys role, I do think it's warranted actually and DNC could benefit more from it as well, for the simple reason that we don't have uptime issues which makes us better at prog. Dying should be more punishing in exchange for it imo. Perhaps we could see our effectiveness re evaluated as a result.