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  1. #1
    Player
    EponaTBHSMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    159
    Character
    Gyalva Guillen
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
    seriously, does no one know the difference between fun / engaging content AND between hard / difficult content??
    Where do you draw that line, and how are you sure it's not subjective?
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    jdtuggey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    123
    Character
    Tsuki Hori
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH View Post
    Where do you draw that line, and how are you sure it's not subjective?
    It's certainly subjective, but if we gather all that data, we can objectively make conclusions that will appeal to most.
    Square enix has the necessary data to make these decisions, and they did.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Damnhedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Limsa-Lominsa
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Gogozan Kikizan
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    seriously, does no one know the difference between fun / engaging content AND between hard / difficult content??
    ...
    the problem here is that casual content has become too hard, as a means to make them more fun / engaging.., BUT the can / should be able to keep them casual easy, but more fun / engaging
    But HOW have they become too hard? It's still the same mechanics you've done the last 10 years of this game, the biggest difference is now they're done more in quick succession instead of standing around drooling for 20 seconds. They aren't hard, dungeons haven't become Savage, the literal only difference is how much you engage with the game, you're expected to take your hand off your phone and stop looking at Netflix to dodge an AoE. If that's considered "Hard" and not more "Fun and Engaging". Then I genuinely don't think anything beyond the bare minimum is for people.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Kiurt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    34
    Character
    Defeth Kinath
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
    seriously, does no one know the difference between fun / engaging content AND between hard / difficult content??
    ...
    the problem here is that casual content has become too hard, as a means to make them more fun / engaging.., BUT the can / should be able to keep them casual easy, but more fun / engaging
    Shinryu was a wall at the time (mostly because of gear tho) when SB released, people adapted and cleared. WoL was "harder" than usual in ShB, people adapted and cleared. Endwalker tho ? In out spread stack half room aoe. 90% of the normal content was that. And it was with huge downtime in between these. Is Dawntrail any different than what you saw in past dungeons / raids ? No. It's the same half room cleave in/out stack/spread, just designed in a way that you have to pay attention more often than every 30 seconds.

    Endwalker was a failure in his boss designs. They were boring and repetitive. Tower of Zot and some of the fights in Pandemonium were outliers. And I'm pretty sure some people got used to it, and have troubles going back to better designed fights, especially on low gear.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    jdtuggey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    123
    Character
    Tsuki Hori
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiurt View Post
    Endwalker was a failure in his boss designs. They were boring and repetitive. Tower of Zot and some of the fights in Pandemonium were outliers. And I'm pretty sure some people got used to it, and have troubles going back to better designed fights, especially on low gear.
    I started in ARR and this argument resonates profoundly with me. Another variable is a lot of people joined during the latter half of SHB where most content was already outgeared. They haven't known difficulty in FFXIV, and their bar was lowered even further with EW content. I don't think people like OP are in it to play the game, they're in it to win it, and expect not to put any effort into it. (Edit: I wouldn't say this about most who joined during this period, just trying to rationalize OP's perspective)

    I also don't think creating a very easy tier of content for these people is the solution, they want the same trophies as everyone else.
    I get the feeling OP might seethe when he sees omega weapon glam in gridania, cause he feels excluded by difficulty. If he's gonna make assumptions, so will I, and I make this one based on how he considers glams and titles "tangible rewards and the only reason people raid".
    (1)
    Last edited by jdtuggey; 07-19-2024 at 11:05 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Blood_Blossoms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    29
    Character
    Lutra Lutra
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    FOMO is very powerfull on some people to the point it rules there life.

    But yeah fully agree we got lots new players that joined when power creeping was a thing as they joined late and when new content was very Autopilot styled content.

    Talking about the new DT content for people saying its to hard heres vid. its not hard if anything its bit more engaging but can still pretty much AFK in it,
    Level 100 story dungeon first boss Trusts zero damage and just RP walking around the room.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Damnhedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Limsa-Lominsa
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Gogozan Kikizan
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Blossoms View Post
    FOMO is very powerfull on some people to the point it rules there life.

    But yeah fully agree we got lots new players that joined when power creeping was a thing as they joined late and when new content was very Autopilot styled content.

    Talking about the new DT content for people saying its to hard heres vid. its not hard if anything its bit more engaging but can still pretty much AFK in it,
    Level 100 story dungeon first boss Trusts zero damage and just RP walking around the room.
    This is even funnier to me cause I had a run last night where we wiped 4 times to the same X and O mechanic at the start due to the Tank and Healer not getting the whole "Don't stand in bad" gimmick. The tank went and I quote "Too chaotic for me" and "This isn't a dungeon, this is savage".
    (5)

  8. #8
    Player
    Kiurt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    34
    Character
    Defeth Kinath
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by jdtuggey View Post
    I started in ARR and this argument resonates profoundly with me. Another variable is a lot of people joined during the latter half of SHB where most content was already outgeared. They haven't known difficulty in FFXIV, and their bar was lowered even further with EW content. I don't think people like OP are in it to play the game, they're in it to win it, and expect not to put any effort into it.

    I also don't think creating a very easy tier of content for these people is the solution, they want the same trophies as everyone else.
    I get the feeling OP might seethe when he sees omega weapon glam in gridania, cause he feels excluded by difficulty. If he's gonna make assumptions, so will I, and I make this one based on how he considers glams and titles "tangible rewards and the only reason people raid".
    FFXIV being a game using the same formula again and again, sometimes changes are to be expected. And they said so. Dawntrail is the extension where they're focusing mostly on content, because that was one of the biggest complaints from the overall playerbase, especially because Endwalker was such a low bar => Lack of engaging content.
    Next expansion will be a focus on classes. Which is going to be harder to get correctly than content.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    TheInactiveWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    2
    Character
    H'leytai Xin
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    This has to be fake rage bait. No one is THIS entitled.
    (5)

  10. #10
    Player
    jdtuggey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    123
    Character
    Tsuki Hori
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInactiveWall View Post
    This has to be fake rage bait. No one is THIS entitled.
    I've seen a lot of similar things in gaming communities. This is almost certainly genuine entitlement.
    I do believe I've seen comments on Arthras' video about people who played with OP as well, and afaik, the pattern matches with what we see here.
    All signs point to "he's serious" and I would be more surprised if this was genuinely a bait.
    (7)

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