Difficulty of normal content.

[Banggugyangu]

Here's the kicker, to the chagrin of many people here I'm not an actually a bad player, someone pointed me to logs on my character (my main one, not this one on my profile) which for whatever reason has a bunch of logs uploaded from EW normal raids, and I was in the top 70-90 percentile, depending of the fight. I am above average when it comes to DPS in normal raids. So you might call it skill issue all day long, I'm not saying it's not, but when you do consider that more than half the player base could be having an even bigger skill issue than mine.

Here's the kicker.... without giving said character's name and server, this statement is just a "My dad works at Nintendo" moment...

[bunnymansv]

definately a comprehension problem. I don't say that to be mean but if you watch and pay attention you can dodge all those attacks. How do I know? I have done it.

[EponaTBHSMH]

Now compare that to the first boss of Alexandria (the morbol looking thing), it does a cone attack that has two variants but they have the same name in the cast bar (Immune Response, I believe), in their own are no problem since you have the visual telegraph. But then it overlaps it with the circles/crosses mech and now you need to watch which cone it is, you need to resolve the current symbol in the ground, you also need to be watching for the next symbols because it goes pretty fast, and also you need to be watching the cast bar to see which thing will resolve first. That's because the version of the cone attack is 50/50 and the combination of O/+ changes too, so sometimes you need to wait for the cones to go out before you can jump into a circle, sometimes is the opposite, it's not something you can rely on muscle memory to do. And more importantly, all this is happening very very fast.

This speed argument still doesn't make sense for the first boss of Alexandria no matter how many times you describe it.

The VERY moment you see the first O or + appear on the screen is when you move to pre position, because after 2 or 3 times it happens, you know there is going to be a cone or an anti-cone AoE

After you are already in that pre position, some seconds pass while the other O and + appear in the arena.

And only after that sequence you finally see a cone or an anti-cone AoE, that happens not to be orange, but from that point you only gotta inch a little north or a little south to be in the correct position to not be hit by either, and its only at that moment that TWO mechanics overlap.

You already see what the other mechanics are after this because you can see the other O and +

There is even a video of someone doing it while RP walking somewhere in this thread so how is this still a matter of speed, and not you just not anticipating the mechanic properly? cuz maybe that's what you have an issue with and not reaction

[Mooserocka33]

[QUOTE=Deslyxic;6557787]Let me give a counter example of a fight that does all this but it's still easy, the Big Cheese (last boss of Lunar Subterrane), it does the conveyor belt things which is an exotic telegraph, and it does overlap it with other mechanics. The overlapping mechanics are a) standard orange circles, b) mines, c) half room casted attack. Of those three the most non standard are the mines but even if you haven't seen them before they are still red circles in the ground, easy "don't stand in bad" thing. At the ende of the day, it is an unconventional telegraph overlapped with pretty much conventional mechanics, and more importantly all is resolved at a very leisure pace, you will see the arrows in the conveyors long before it executes it.
Now compare that to the first boss of Alexandria (the morbol looking thing), it does a cone attack that has two variants but they have the same name in the cast bar (Immune Response, I believe), in their own are no problem since you have the visual telegraph. But then it overlaps it with the circles/crosses mech and now you need to watch which cone it is, you need to resolve the current symbol in the ground, you also need to be watching for the next symbols because it goes pretty fast, and also you need to be watching the cast bar to see which thing will resolve first. That's because the version of the cone attack is 50/50 and the combination of O/+ changes too, so sometimes you need to wait for the cones to go out before you can jump into a circle, sometimes is the opposite, it's not something you can rely on muscle memory to do. And more importantly, all this is happening very very fast.


The first boss in alexandria is the easiest boss of the tier it only has 2 moves, it has the glowy things that light up just preposition yourself next to it if its a circle go in, if its a plus avoid? Dont even worry about the cone breath things just get hit by them if you have to they wont kill you.The other will prioritise, there is only 5 of these also. Does it come out fast yes but if you are right next to it just go in sprint if you have too. I feel you keep giving excuse after excuse and arguing with people just to keep this post going, now that everyone has more gear should be no problems anymore.

[Banggugyangu]

No problem, but this is going to be a long one (so long I gonna need to split it in multiple post, there is a 3000 character limit, lol).
First, I regret some of the wording I used, like separating these in bullet points. People have been trying to argue them individually but the problem for me is the sum of the parts.

The last point, about seemingly random patterns, is the one that stand most on it's own. There been fights in the past that had similarly random pattern attacks, like Barbariccia, but they are very rare and such attacks are not prominent in the fights. In this expansion the very first boss of the fist dungeon, the manatee looking mf, start to throw random stuff that generate different size and shapes of aoes. The second boss of Vanguard does a random assortment of line and circle AOEs (the lines I believe are targeted at players, but the direction is still random). The same boss also drops random circles while it's doing the spinning cones. The manta ray boss of Skydeep Cenote bubbles themselves aren't random, but when players start to shoot bubbles too it might as well be, since you don't control other players. And of course M2, I don't know if the hearts have random patterns but the circles in the floor happening simultaneously surely seem to be random.

Also people have taken issue with the word "random" while ignoring the word "seemingly", the point is they feel random and even if they aren't and somehow after many tries you start to see the code of The Matrix it's because right now you are running them often, but rest assured than in like 8 months you gonna get these duties in a roulette and is going to feel as random as the first day.

As for the other three points we would need to determine first what I would call a standard telegraph. Obvious orange circles are as standard as it get, and any other ground marker than just mean "don't stand here". Also I would consider standard any attack telegraphed by a cast bar with a name that gives away what the mechanic does, like Amon in Aitiascope when it does Left Firaga/Right Firaga, or any other somewhat clear indication like Ttekrrone that uses words like "fangward" or "tailward", it's pretty clear what they mean (at least to me). Any other stuff I would call non standard, stuff that does require extra mental time to determine how to solve it.

I'd be very curious to see a video of you playing with an eyetracker overlay going. I'm about 100.9% certain that you stare at your hotbars (or click your actions...). Practically everything you listed is EXTREMELY intuitive telegraphs and EXTREMELY easy to avoid if you're just paying attention to what's happening.

[jdtuggey]

Spoiler warning for Endwalker and Dawntrail

For the first boss of the first dungeon, there's two patterns, they are always the same. Once you figure them out, you know exactly where to move next. I had them figured out after having ran the dungeon something like 3 times.
There's even one pattern that takes you directly to the boss' face, and you're safe there until you need to move for the final AOE.
The other pattern requires you to move to one side, then the other, then loop back around to the first side by moving back a little bit.
One thing that might help here: You're often better taking an AoE to the face than trying to move out of it and risking getting hit by 2. I often make that choice consciously.
(I mostly play melee since DT, there may be other solutions for ranged)

Vanguard's second boss AoE's are targeted at players. You just need to relocate slightly. You also don't get vuln stacks for getting hit there afaik, so they're expecting you're gonna take a hit or two.
Stop dps if you need to, focus on avoiding stuff, not like there's an enrage lol.

Concerning Skydeep Cenote's bubbles, you're probably moving too much during bubble phase, or others are, which endangers everyone else. If you move slowly and you keep to your quadrant, they're really easy to manage.
People have figured this out at this point, and they don't run 5 yalms to avoid one anymore.

M2 is a bit harder to manage (I would expect that), I haven't done it enough to notice a pattern, and I've died on this, but judging from other similar fights, I'm pretty sure there is one.
There's a perspective bias in humans concerning randomness, we tend to see an even distribution as "random" and a truly random distribution as not so random.

Big cheese is the last boss of Smileton, btw. Last boss of Subterrane is Golbez' friendo.
Antivirus telegraphs its attack -clearly- like 20 seconds before he does that phase. That's when you need to calculate your pathing, not while it's happening, and you need to process that mechanic as one block.
Again, it's always the same patterns, and they're designed so they always take you to a place where you have space to avoid immune response, because it's not random, lol.
You only really need to focus on nailing the X's and O's. They're all conventional telegraphs. The shapes tell you exactly what's gonna happen.

Concerning Valigarmanda, well, we've always had telegraphs where we need to look at what the boss is doing, like the first boss of origenics clearly telegraphs which side is gonna blow up by lifting his arms.
Usually when I fail a mechanic, when it comes again, I look at things that might be it. Castbars or boss animations are the #1 prime suspects in all of these cases.
I also feel like you should know these things if you're doing 90th percentile parses. Of course, no way to verify any of what you're saying because you're hiding on alt, so #doubt.

You mention Amon, sure he telegraphs firaga with castbar, but does he telegraph strophe with castbar ? (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
You don't seem to have a problem turning your camera around on that boss.
The first boss of Vanaspati also has pretty non-standard telegraphs, and asks you to look at the boss/castbar while they are resolving. That's fine to you ?
Same with the last boss, like, the meteors resolve really quick and barely leaves you time to move between the 2nd and the 3rd. There's a bunch of circle AoE's sprinkled throughout too.
There's also a lot of overlapping mechanics.
Hermes has a butt ton of "non-standard telegraphs" too, and you don't have a problem with those.
Perhaps because you got used to them ?
Add second boss of tower of babil to that, you need to look which head isn't on fire on the second boss of ktisis.
I'm sure if I think hard enough, I can find plenty more.

Concerning the speed of some of these mechanics, it certainly caught me by surprise, but I got used to it. Doesn't feel "faster" anymore.
I never felt your problem is a matter of skill, I feel it's a matter of not wanting to. This game is pretty easy, really. At least at this level. I know without a doubt that you can do it.
So many people have given you solutions, and you're just like "nope" and you keep re-emphasizing the "problem".
Like, people have been here spending their time explaining and telling you "you can do it", and you just brush these people aside as meanie pawns of Arthars and you play the victim.

Dawntrail didn't slight you, you're slighting yourself lol. You've clearly demonstrated there's a matter of attitude in this post alone, that you feel your mistakes are others'.
I feel like the first step to resolving your issue is to take personal responsibility for your mistakes. When you fail a mechanic, it's not square that made it too hard or others screwing you up.
Owning up to these mistakes and learning from them is the first step to you enjoying DT, I think.

I don't know why I am wasting my time. ._.
When a game doesn't work for me, I am more than happy to not play it. It also sends a pretty clear message to the people that own it (square in this case).

[Kiurt]

I don't know why I am wasting my time. ._.
When a game doesn't work for me, I am more than happy to not play it. It also sends a pretty clear message to the people that own it (square in this case).

Eh, atleast you're trying, but you shouldn't waste more of your energy to someone that has made it clear that he only cares about his opinion and doesn't want any tips gameplay related. Sometimes it's just a lost cause.

[ilzee]

The fights are more engaging but each individual mechanic is not harder than any other reasonable normal content. It's ok if you wipe a little while learning. It's ok to learn.

[albeva]

Reading this thread is truly disheartening. So many commentators have completely forgotten that this is a game. I know it is hard to imagine, but there are people who just want to have a bit of fun. Enjoy the story, run a dungeon and then log off. People who ren't looking for stress or challenge.

From that perspective, I do believe normal mode dungeons, trials and raids should be a bit more forgiving and casual friendly.