Difficulty of normal content.

[Rydia_Misuto]

while we're talking about difficulty, can we please make any of the pre-DT dungeons at all challenging, even a little bit? As an immediate offhand example, I really do miss when the mechanics of the bosses in Gubal Library actually mattered at all. I wasn't a fan of early ARR dungeons becoming steamroll-fests, but this problem has reached as far as Endwalker now. Are we doomed to a game where every single dungeon is irrelevant if it isn't 'current' content, or if it takes any time at all it's due to forced chokepoints like the final mob segment of Holminster Switch?

Can we get back dungeons that are not hallways that follow a lock-step pattern? I miss old Tam-tara for having options /at all/. I miss dungeons ever having any kind of challenge or variety whatsoever. All that's gone, AND bosses run to the center on top of all of it, too, invalidating the very concept of tank positioning being a factor at all?

It's extremely sad that there are people wailing and gnashing their teeth at the concept of the game getting any 'harder' at all when it's the tiniest flimsiest step towards the still-too-easiness of Shadowbringers. I would like more dungeons with floor effects, environmental hazards, any kind of mechanic at all, branching paths, variety in approach methods. Antitower could have let you pick which path you did first and even if you still did all of them anyway, it would be SOMETHING. This has been sorely missing and an increasingly pervasive problem since /Sohm Al Hard/ back in HW.

[EponaTBHSMH]

while we're talking about difficulty, can we please make any of the pre-DT dungeons at all challenging, even a little bit? As an immediate offhand example, I really do miss when the mechanics of the bosses in Gubal Library actually mattered at all. I wasn't a fan of early ARR dungeons becoming steamroll-fests, but this problem has reached as far as Endwalker now. Are we doomed to a game where every single dungeon is irrelevant if it isn't 'current' content, or if it takes any time at all it's due to forced chokepoints like the final mob segment of Holminster Switch?

Can we get back dungeons that are not hallways that follow a lock-step pattern? I miss old Tam-tara for having options /at all/. I miss dungeons ever having any kind of challenge or variety whatsoever. All that's gone, AND bosses run to the center on top of all of it, too, invalidating the very concept of tank positioning being a factor at all?

It's extremely sad that there are people wailing and gnashing their teeth at the concept of the game getting any 'harder' at all when it's the tiniest flimsiest step towards the still-too-easiness of Shadowbringers. I would like more dungeons with floor effects, environmental hazards, any kind of mechanic at all, branching paths, variety in approach methods. Antitower could have let you pick which path you did first and even if you still did all of them anyway, it would be SOMETHING. This has been sorely missing and an increasingly pervasive problem since /Sohm Al Hard/ back in HW.

Reading this, along with the rest of this thread, comforts me in the idea that this game does need tiers of difficulty, PSO2 style, where harder difficulties give better rewards.
That way people that are enjoying the route that DT is taking difficulty wise can also enjoy previous expac dungeons while players that enjoy a more relaxed style of play where they don't wanna think too much can also enjoy.

Non standard double wall to wall pull would be good too, changing the pacing of the dungeon to not always being 2 sets of mobs then boss would be refreshing

[Alice_Rivers]

I like the idea of removing walls between pulls and bosses, lets bring back tank agency. Knowing how far you can pull should be part of the tank's skillset and would help a bit with the healing requirement issues.

[RaitoRalana]

So we are back at ARR: Pull to boss room to lock out the adds?
It was fun.. 10 years ago, but Im glad it changed.

[NightHour]

Not everyone wants a constant challenge. You ex players and raiders get your own modes and challenges, some people just want to veg out and enjoy a non challenging game, which the game has been for ten years, to it's success. Stop trying to make other people play your way.

PF is getting worse with third party tool parses being demanded, and friends I do have whonhave gotten clears in savage ar getting kicked off teams constantly for the tiniest mistakes.

Giving the 'crushing difficilty' people an inch has caused the game to get less friendly, forgiving, and fun.

The games success didnt come from "vegging out" content at all, it came from WoW being a shit game at the time Endwalker released.



This is an MMO, MMO's are meant to have a progression path.

That path is Dungeons > Alliance Raids > Normal Trials > Normal Raid > Extreme > Savage > Ultimate

Criterion is side content.


Normal is technically "mid tier" content, endwalker difficulty did not reflect that.

The current difficulty of Dawntrail Normals is what I'd expect mid-tier content to be tuned towards.

Not too hard but also not so easy that you can put 1 hand behind your back and still clear.

and friends I do have who have gotten clears in savage ar getting kicked off teams constantly for the tiniest mistakes.

I doubt that.

There's probably more to it, no static worth a damn kicks someone for the tiniest mistake, they'd never clear anything if they did.

PF is getting worse with third party tool parses being demanded

That's plain wrong.

In the ~ 3 years I've been playing, I have not seen a PF group put up a parse requirement to join.

Unless it was a group designed for logging, which the average PF Joe has no business joining anyway. Those groups are designed for Best in Slot players to optimize their play, not to get loot or for people to clear.



There's 3 kinds of groups in PF


Practice - People learning the fight or progressing past a pre-defined part.

Clear Group - You can hit enrage or see every mechanic consistently and are ready to clear (No, watching a guide fully does not make you clear ready)

Logging - These groups are designed for Best in Slot players and are controlled environments with specific comps and strats to optimize play on fights - These are NOT designed for 99.9% of PF users.

[RaitoRalana]

Edit: For anyone wondering about the amount of pages of replies, when this thread was around page 11 the streamer Arthars covered it live, twitted about it and then uploaded it to YT. Later I found out that other big content creators covered it too and that this thread was linked both in 4chan and reddit. What you are seeing are multiple big streamers and some smaller ones too putting a target in me, this thread and anyone sharing this opinion (plus 4chan trolls for good measure).
While I understand that some of my opinions in this and my other posts in this thread can be interpreted as hyperbole I stand by them. My position is unchanged.

Ngl, you should be glad. The forum is used by.. I dont know.. less then 1% of the community. I would even say less then 0,1%.
And its not like "Oh, streamer A or B covered this" = ALL of those viewers going into the forum, just to hate it. Im pretty sure some were be like "Oh, that person is correct, I should like the comment!"

And when the game is "too hard" for 1% of the players. That hard that those people quit (they wont, maybe 10% of those 1%). It might attract 2% new player.
For me the Dawntrail raids are totally fine. Some new mechanics, but totally fine. I had more issues in older tiers.. and I still made every raid/alliance raid tier for 10~15 weeks after they were released.
Sometimes I was healer and sometimes I was dps. Because I had more fun with one or it was just easier for me. *Shruge*

And the BIGGEST issue is: Where are you drawing the line might be completly diff for others.
Like, when you say: "Normal raid/alliance raid and dungeons should be easy doable for everyone."
There might be people, who think all of that is way too hard right now.. and SE reduce the difficulty by 10%.
After that there still might be people who think its too hard.. another 10%. etc And that increase the gap between normal and extreme/savage/ultimate etc and people who enjoy "harder" content, might quit before, because anything else is just too annoying/boring to bear.

In ARR were people, who left the game, because some story instances were "way too hard" (especially that one in northern Thanalaan) - or well - some job quests. Mostly because people were extremely undergeared. Someone I saw back in the day, was super angry, that they were not able to beat the dragoon job quest fight.. and that person had lvl 40~ gear. For a lvl 58-60(?) job quest.

[jdtuggey]

I mean, am pretty sure OP cleared the raids at this point and realized that it's not hard at all. :P

[SekiaTa1ga]

My honest take, as harsh as it is, is that there are some people that don't find any adversity fun and don't understand the concept of getting better at something being its own reward. I'm to the point now where when I see anyone think something is too hard in FFXIV at a normal level, I think it has nothing to do with their own innate skill and instead speaks alot more to their personality.

The issue is that they don't think that what they're asking for is unreasonable; but it is. The game is as easy as it can get in normal content; it doesn't even demand you really know how to play your job or interact with your own skillset even half competently. You can still trudge through pretty much all of the content by putting in just a fraction of effort. There's no way anyone can convince me that learning to push buttons and not stand in danger zones is too difficult of an undertaking.

If you find DT too hard you're either willfully incompetent or lazy, and that's the blunt truth of it all. Don't find meeting the minimum difficulty requirement of what a game demands to be something you want to do? Cool, then go play another game.

Demanding the game be easier is like signing up for a race and then complaining 98/100 runners are faster than you and should run slower.

[Deslyxic]

I mean, am pretty sure OP cleared the raids at this point and realized that it's not hard at all. :P

And you would be wrong. Haven't even returned the quest for doing M2. I stand by what I wrote.

[jdtuggey]

And you would be wrong. Haven't even returned the quest for doing M2. I stand by what I wrote.

I did say I wasn't sure. Standing by what you wrote doesn't mean you're right though. :P
Edit: I found the problem you're experiencing! You're running a full set of 660 gear in content meant for 685+ gear! :P
At ilvl 663 on my viper, I have over 15% hp less than at 700, not to mention all the defensive stats you're missing out on.
In that context, yeah, everything would seem overpowered to me.
I do not think you get synced up either ?
Compared my stats on my 693 summoner, and yeah, about a 10-15% increase in all stats too.
Do you need information on how to gear up at 100 ? (who am I kidding lol)
About at the midway point of an expansion (~95-96) is the point where I notice my optimized gear from the previous XP doesn't do it anymore.
Rofl, really hard to believe such a huge drama train started for such a silly reason.
Edit2: Did you even step into arcadion ? lol, you shouldn't be able to with ilvl 660. I'm doubting that you even tried at this point.